#48: Radiating Wellness: Dr. Rajat Chand’s Journey from Medicine to Mindfulness
Is modern medicine enough, or is true healing found in the connection between mind, body, and spirit?
In this episode of Beyond The Pills, we explore the transformative journey of Dr. Rajat Chand, a physician who stepped beyond the traditional boundaries of medicine to embrace the life-changing power of mindfulness and holistic wellness. Dr. Chand’s story is an inspiring reminder that wellness is more than just the absence of disease—it’s about cultivating balance, emotional health, and purpose in every area of life.
As a seasoned medical professional, Dr. Chand witnessed firsthand the strengths and limitations of modern healthcare. While it excels at treating physical symptoms, he recognized its inability to address the deeper causes of illness—stress, emotional imbalance, and a disconnection from self. This realization set him on a path to integrate mindfulness, emotional well-being, and holistic practices into the traditional medical framework.
In this episode, Dr. Chand shares his journey of bridging the gap between medicine and mindfulness, and why the future of healthcare must go beyond treating symptoms to truly heal the whole person. You’ll discover how mindfulness practices can empower patients to take control of their well-being, while also offering healthcare providers tools to reduce burnout and connect more deeply with their purpose.
Whether you’re a patient looking for deeper healing, a healthcare provider seeking inspiration, or someone curious about mindfulness, this conversation offers actionable insights and life-changing lessons that will inspire you to redefine what wellness means in your life.
Key Takeaways:
Why Modern Medicine Needs Mindfulness:
Dr. Chand explores the gaps in modern healthcare, explaining why physical treatments often fall short without addressing emotional and mental health. Learn how mindfulness fills these gaps, helping to reduce stress and promote lasting wellness.
The Mind-Body-Spirit Connection:
Discover how your thoughts, emotions, and physical health are interconnected and why true healing requires nurturing all three aspects of your being. Dr. Chand explains how mindfulness practices can create harmony within this powerful triad.
The Transformative Power of Presence:
Dr. Chand highlights the science and practical benefits of mindfulness, from reducing anxiety and improving focus to fostering resilience in high-pressure environments.
How to Integrate Mindfulness into Everyday Life:
Learn actionable steps to incorporate mindfulness into your daily routine, whether through meditation, mindful breathing, or cultivating self-awareness in moments of stress.
Radiating Wellness Beyond the Clinic:
Dr. Chand shares how embracing mindfulness can create a ripple effect, improving not just your personal well-being but also your relationships, professional life, and sense of purpose.
🎧 Are you ready to redefine wellness and embrace a more mindful way of living?
Tune in to this inspiring episode with Dr. Rajat Chand and explore the transformative power of mindfulness. Whether you’re navigating the challenges of healthcare, dealing with stress, or simply curious about living with greater purpose, this episode will empower you to take the next step toward true healing.
Stream now on Apple Podcasts or Spotify and start your journey toward balance, mindfulness, and holistic wellness today!
Contact Dr. Rajat Chand:
📌 Connect with Dr. Chand on LinkedIn
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Transcript
Welcome, welcome, welcome everybody.
Speaker:Welcome to this episode of
Speaker:Beyond the Pills.
Speaker:I'm Josh Remini,
Speaker:the pharmacist turned healer.
Speaker:And today I have a very special guest,
Speaker:already a really good friend of mine.
Speaker:We have Rajat Shahan, he's an MD,
Speaker:he's a board certified
Speaker:radiologist who's based out of Austin,
Speaker:Texas,
Speaker:and he specializes in both adult
Speaker:and pediatric diagnosis and intervention.
Speaker:But why he's here today is
Speaker:he served as an author and
Speaker:editor of multiple textbooks,
Speaker:as well as a speaker for
Speaker:international medical
Speaker:conferences on the topics
Speaker:related to both radiology
Speaker:and mindfulness.
Speaker:So Dr. Chan enjoys cooking,
Speaker:Brazilian jiu-jitsu, artistic exploration,
Speaker:and spending time with his pets.
Speaker:I love pet owners and lovers.
Speaker:He will be a lifelong
Speaker:student in yoga and aims to
Speaker:integrate Eastern spirituality,
Speaker:not only with his holistic
Speaker:view of healthcare,
Speaker:but also in teaching the
Speaker:future generations of physicians.
Speaker:Welcome, Rajat.
Speaker:What's up?
Speaker:How are you doing, buddy?
Speaker:Thank you so much for that
Speaker:kind introduction, Josh.
Speaker:It's really wonderful to be here.
Speaker:I'm doing great.
Speaker:It's a beautiful Friday.
Speaker:I'm just making my way from
Speaker:Virginia to Texas to
Speaker:actually start a new job.
Speaker:And likewise, it's wonderful meeting you,
Speaker:becoming friends with you,
Speaker:learning about this podcast.
Speaker:I think it's a great initiative.
Speaker:Super exciting content that
Speaker:you're putting together.
Speaker:And it's just really great
Speaker:to be a part of it.
Speaker:So thank you for the invitation.
Speaker:I'm doing great.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So let's get down into it.
Speaker:Like, you know,
Speaker:Who is Rajat?
Speaker:Who is Dr. Chand?
Speaker:Like, what do you do?
Speaker:Like radiologists meets mindfulness.
Speaker:What is that about?
Speaker:Like, who are you today?
Speaker:What is this?
Speaker:Like what life is great, right?
Speaker:life is great life is you
Speaker:know has to be great um
Speaker:it's you know you gotta
Speaker:have that perspective even
Speaker:when it's not um you know
Speaker:mindfulness is all about
Speaker:making it great and how to
Speaker:make it great um so you
Speaker:know me in in my own personal journey um
Speaker:starting, I guess, back in my childhood,
Speaker:I was exposed to some of
Speaker:the components of mindfulness,
Speaker:meditation.
Speaker:I would say overall from a
Speaker:very superficial sense,
Speaker:there was no deep pull from
Speaker:my family to really be too
Speaker:embedded in the philosophy
Speaker:of the religion or spirituality.
Speaker:Just kind of make of it
Speaker:we would and adopt what we
Speaker:want out of it and carry on
Speaker:to our adulthood,
Speaker:whatever we thought was
Speaker:important about it.
Speaker:So I had a little bit of a
Speaker:basis of understanding of these
Speaker:things mindfulness and
Speaker:meditation growing up and
Speaker:then started taking it a
Speaker:little bit more seriously
Speaker:just through my own natural
Speaker:internal curiosity wanting
Speaker:to know maybe a little bit
Speaker:more about my roots but
Speaker:actually the science and
Speaker:the philosophy itself just
Speaker:you know coming of age
Speaker:going through undergrad
Speaker:going getting you know
Speaker:going into science biology
Speaker:and pursuing medicine just
Speaker:wanting to know you know
Speaker:what is this thing behind
Speaker:the mind and what it claims
Speaker:to be able to do in terms
Speaker:of not only you know aiding
Speaker:in one's spiritual progress
Speaker:but actually aiding in
Speaker:one's health and you know
Speaker:providing a good sound
Speaker:environment internally and
Speaker:even externally for somebody to
Speaker:to live in and, you know, stay away from,
Speaker:you know, potential chronic diseases.
Speaker:And so, you know,
Speaker:it's just something that I
Speaker:wanted to learn more about
Speaker:myself and just started
Speaker:taking it up independently.
Speaker:I would say, you know,
Speaker:halfway through my undergrad years,
Speaker:just thought, you know,
Speaker:let me just develop a
Speaker:regimented practice on my own,
Speaker:see how long I can stick with it.
Speaker:And, you know,
Speaker:anything you start off as
Speaker:can be a little bit rocky,
Speaker:a little bit up and down.
Speaker:But I think luckily for me
Speaker:and I think for most people, you know,
Speaker:commitment is the name of the game.
Speaker:You stick with something long enough,
Speaker:especially if it's tried and true.
Speaker:And, you know,
Speaker:so many people vouch for it.
Speaker:it will work out for you.
Speaker:It's just when it becomes a
Speaker:natural part of your rhythm and flow,
Speaker:something you feel
Speaker:comfortable with to keep up
Speaker:for however long you want.
Speaker:And luckily I was able to
Speaker:find that rhythm and flow
Speaker:and it became a consistent
Speaker:daily part of my life.
Speaker:And fast forward a little
Speaker:bit into my residency years,
Speaker:really sort of faced with
Speaker:some of the qualms of
Speaker:modern day medicine and
Speaker:just understanding from a
Speaker:personal sense of how
Speaker:actually this practice that I
Speaker:that I luckily adopted not
Speaker:too long ago is helping me
Speaker:not only understand these issues better,
Speaker:understanding how they affect me better,
Speaker:understanding how they
Speaker:affect my healthcare environment,
Speaker:my colleagues, and not only understanding
Speaker:the effect of the issues in
Speaker:medicine and modern day
Speaker:medicine and what they have
Speaker:on the environment and
Speaker:practitioners and providers,
Speaker:but understanding how to
Speaker:get over that and
Speaker:mindfulness and meditation
Speaker:being a tool to really
Speaker:address these issues and
Speaker:not only heal yourself,
Speaker:um based on off of of what
Speaker:you see and what affects
Speaker:you um but also be able to
Speaker:heal others which is also
Speaker:you know the other part of
Speaker:the equation um and being
Speaker:able to do that in a way
Speaker:that really comes from a
Speaker:place of compassion and
Speaker:equanimity um and so you
Speaker:know as I progress in my practice
Speaker:I started learning how
Speaker:mindfulness is a tool to
Speaker:really not only be affected by the issues,
Speaker:but also continue to
Speaker:provide excellent care to patients.
Speaker:And so I just,
Speaker:it was like two lines going
Speaker:parallel in the same direction,
Speaker:just making complete sense
Speaker:in terms of having to keep
Speaker:up the practice to be able
Speaker:to continue to thrive in
Speaker:such an environment.
Speaker:um and then you know
Speaker:becoming more progressed
Speaker:and I guess more skilled
Speaker:along those lines and
Speaker:becoming more knowledgeable
Speaker:in terms of looking into
Speaker:the science more and
Speaker:actually understanding you
Speaker:know what is it about
Speaker:mindfulness what is it
Speaker:about meditation that
Speaker:affects us what changes
Speaker:happen in our body in our
Speaker:brains in our minds that
Speaker:really acts allow us to
Speaker:adapt in such a way and be able to thrive
Speaker:And then it just became from
Speaker:there a natural inquiry,
Speaker:curiosity turned into a passion,
Speaker:into a hobby,
Speaker:wanting to not only just
Speaker:keep this information or
Speaker:what I saw as a secret to myself,
Speaker:but be able to spread that
Speaker:message to others and say, hey,
Speaker:there's a way to live beyond the stress,
Speaker:live beyond the burnout.
Speaker:And not only that,
Speaker:but provide excellent care along the way.
Speaker:Um, you know, to my colleagues,
Speaker:to anyone I came across, um, you know,
Speaker:and even to my patients, you know,
Speaker:because our patients are dealing with the,
Speaker:with the same issues,
Speaker:not only affected by the
Speaker:healthcare system due to a
Speaker:number of different reasons, rising costs,
Speaker:uh, you know,
Speaker:inadequacies and access to healthcare.
Speaker:I mean, you name it,
Speaker:there's a laundry list of items.
Speaker:Um, but also, um, you know, um,
Speaker:finding compassion in themselves,
Speaker:something that's really
Speaker:important for one's health
Speaker:and being able to avoid
Speaker:certain disease processes.
Speaker:And so,
Speaker:I saw it as a multifaceted
Speaker:tool to help not only fellow providers,
Speaker:but also patients.
Speaker:The curiosity hobby turned
Speaker:into a passion desire to
Speaker:educate as many people as possible.
Speaker:And that's what I would say
Speaker:has landed me here today.
Speaker:Somebody who's just written
Speaker:a recent book that talks
Speaker:about the subject.
Speaker:is sort of an A to Z manual
Speaker:handbook that serves for
Speaker:anyone in healthcare, really,
Speaker:not really for patients,
Speaker:but mostly for the provider side,
Speaker:to be able to learn about
Speaker:mindfulness meditation,
Speaker:sort of as a blueprint in
Speaker:terms of what it is,
Speaker:how to integrate it into
Speaker:your personal lives,
Speaker:into your professional lives,
Speaker:into your healthcare environment,
Speaker:whether that may be clinic, an office,
Speaker:medical education, you know,
Speaker:administration side of things,
Speaker:whatever it may be,
Speaker:and to maintain the practice and to,
Speaker:you know, to
Speaker:and all the aforementioned
Speaker:benefits that come through that.
Speaker:So that's the long and the short of it.
Speaker:I'm happy to sort of iron
Speaker:out anything in between, but yeah,
Speaker:what can I clarify?
Speaker:There's so much in there.
Speaker:I've got all of my notes
Speaker:written down from just that,
Speaker:like so cool.
Speaker:We're definitely going to
Speaker:get to your book because I think
Speaker:You talked about parallels, right?
Speaker:Like it's a parallel to like
Speaker:what I call and it's funny how you meet,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Like you're doing what
Speaker:you're doing for your profession,
Speaker:like this healthcare profession.
Speaker:We got to talk about...
Speaker:stress and burnout in health
Speaker:care we got to talk about
Speaker:um the backed by science
Speaker:piece because we're both
Speaker:scientists right we both
Speaker:learned from the language
Speaker:of medicine or west
Speaker:medicine right md pharmacist
Speaker:And we've had our own health journeys,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:These journeys of healing
Speaker:ourselves and being called
Speaker:to help others and the
Speaker:parallel of using it.
Speaker:I loved how you said like
Speaker:using it in your day to day,
Speaker:not only for yourself.
Speaker:But to teach your patients,
Speaker:to teach the healthcare system,
Speaker:that's broken.
Speaker:It's obviously broken.
Speaker:We know that it's broken.
Speaker:We're the sickest,
Speaker:richest country in the world.
Speaker:So there's so much to unpack here.
Speaker:So I'll try to guide some of
Speaker:these questions because...
Speaker:They're all amazing in this
Speaker:parallel universe we're
Speaker:both in is like I'm
Speaker:literally in a process
Speaker:right now of running
Speaker:pharmacists through a
Speaker:burnout reversal program.
Speaker:And it's all based on mindfulness, right?
Speaker:It's based on like we can
Speaker:talk about the science of
Speaker:like heart math and
Speaker:neuroscience and moving the
Speaker:brainwaves and and how it
Speaker:relates not only to our own
Speaker:personal well-being, but it also
Speaker:even in the energetic field,
Speaker:it translates over to your patient.
Speaker:It translates over into them.
Speaker:I love what you're doing,
Speaker:but was it always this way for you?
Speaker:Tell us a little bit about,
Speaker:take us back to this time where,
Speaker:because when I think of healthcare,
Speaker:it is super stressful.
Speaker:You're an MD.
Speaker:You went through
Speaker:undergrad you went through
Speaker:like you went through
Speaker:medical school you went
Speaker:through your residency
Speaker:you've gone through all
Speaker:these processes and it's
Speaker:super stressful in other
Speaker:words it's almost like a
Speaker:rite of passage right tell
Speaker:tell the people listening
Speaker:like what was it like going
Speaker:through that process of
Speaker:like you know you'll sleep
Speaker:when you're dead philosophy
Speaker:of like if you don't work a
Speaker:hundred and twenty hours you're failing
Speaker:And that's my I might be
Speaker:undervaluing that a little
Speaker:bit or underestimating.
Speaker:So take us back to where you
Speaker:went through school.
Speaker:Did you always use this mindfulness?
Speaker:Were you already like there
Speaker:or was it there a place
Speaker:where you're like something
Speaker:else has to click here?
Speaker:Yeah, so.
Speaker:There's no wrong answers to
Speaker:these questions.
Speaker:That's why they're beautiful.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:No, they're great questions.
Speaker:So again,
Speaker:I think my own independent
Speaker:mindfulness meditation practice is
Speaker:just luckily started
Speaker:alongside my education.
Speaker:There was no sort of point
Speaker:where I need to pursue
Speaker:mindfulness meditation in
Speaker:order to help me get over
Speaker:the qualms that I'm
Speaker:experiencing in education
Speaker:and in modern day Western medicine.
Speaker:It's just luckily something
Speaker:that I started early on and
Speaker:Luckily that I adapted into
Speaker:my life in terms of a
Speaker:continuous ongoing daily
Speaker:regimen and then found that, wow,
Speaker:this tool that I just luckily adopted,
Speaker:I would say in the thick of
Speaker:my residency years is
Speaker:something that is really
Speaker:helping me face these
Speaker:issues that I'm experiencing that
Speaker:that I don't really align
Speaker:with that are bothering me
Speaker:in the sense of medicine
Speaker:being a profit driven model
Speaker:that there's so much
Speaker:greed and power struggles.
Speaker:There's a wonderful quote by Paul Starr.
Speaker:He's an author.
Speaker:He's a professor of
Speaker:sociology at Princeton.
Speaker:And he says,
Speaker:the dream of reason never took
Speaker:power into account.
Speaker:And I think that's so
Speaker:applicable to medicine and
Speaker:kind of the problems that
Speaker:we're facing in medicine.
Speaker:It's an institution that
Speaker:should be based off of
Speaker:reason and
Speaker:interconnectedness and lack of greed.
Speaker:But it's just so usurped and
Speaker:consumed by those issues.
Speaker:And a lot of it comes down to
Speaker:you know, just aforementioned greed,
Speaker:the need for power.
Speaker:So, you know, experiencing these things,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:face to face in my medical
Speaker:training and then just realizing, wow,
Speaker:like this tool that I've
Speaker:adapted is really helping
Speaker:me kind of understand
Speaker:myself and others through this process.
Speaker:But not only that,
Speaker:overcome it as well and progress,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:from a personal and even
Speaker:spiritual perspective.
Speaker:And it's just,
Speaker:it's funny it's one of those
Speaker:things and it's like uh
Speaker:it's it's like you know
Speaker:there's a good and bad and
Speaker:everything from a
Speaker:non-dualistic approach it's
Speaker:like gosh I really had to
Speaker:be in the thick of the
Speaker:struggles of a really harsh
Speaker:environment in terms of
Speaker:training but it's those
Speaker:types of environments
Speaker:especially when you're able
Speaker:to keep up a practice like
Speaker:this that will really even
Speaker:you know allow your
Speaker:progress to take off from
Speaker:an exponential um um you
Speaker:know manner um you know
Speaker:being able to practice
Speaker:mindfulness and meditation
Speaker:in not the best of
Speaker:circumstances gives you
Speaker:that much more ability to,
Speaker:to progress in terms of
Speaker:being able to acquire its
Speaker:benefits and even advanced spiritually.
Speaker:So I think I was lucky, but, um, you know,
Speaker:obviously it's one of those
Speaker:things that you look back on it.
Speaker:Do you,
Speaker:do you wish you could have avoided it?
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:it's hard to say because I
Speaker:wouldn't be here where I am
Speaker:right now if I if I if I
Speaker:didn't have you know the
Speaker:the the training and and
Speaker:the circumstances that I
Speaker:went through um and so yeah
Speaker:um to look to I guess go
Speaker:back to your question um
Speaker:you know were things always
Speaker:this way they they
Speaker:they started as separate
Speaker:entities kind of moving
Speaker:alongside one another.
Speaker:And then it came to a
Speaker:realization that this is
Speaker:something that's actually
Speaker:gonna help me drastically,
Speaker:not only through my training,
Speaker:but in my personal life.
Speaker:And ultimately when I'm
Speaker:practicing autonomously as
Speaker:a physician to provide
Speaker:really holistic healthcare
Speaker:to my patients.
Speaker:And I think our patients,
Speaker:know the difference.
Speaker:I think our patients when
Speaker:they meet a provider, they
Speaker:compassion and the ability
Speaker:and and just your general
Speaker:interest in their care from
Speaker:the from the view
Speaker:perspective of
Speaker:interconnectedness seeing
Speaker:someone as you see yourself
Speaker:and not just as something
Speaker:that's going to add value
Speaker:to your practice or
Speaker:something that's just going
Speaker:to you know um
Speaker:you know help you from a
Speaker:from a material perspective
Speaker:um you know that's
Speaker:something that people I
Speaker:think pick on pick off
Speaker:right away yeah and I think
Speaker:it's really important what
Speaker:you said earlier just now
Speaker:was also really important I
Speaker:want to touch on this
Speaker:because what we're talking
Speaker:about right now is what I
Speaker:and I think you believe is
Speaker:like this new present
Speaker:future of medicine right but
Speaker:we have a big challenge issue.
Speaker:Our healthcare system is broken.
Speaker:And the fact that it's
Speaker:broken is because it is profit centered,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:We know big pharma, we know big business,
Speaker:we know big insurance,
Speaker:healthcare in this country,
Speaker:is a business first this is
Speaker:why I started my own
Speaker:pharmacy which turned into
Speaker:a health wellness center
Speaker:like all doctors and
Speaker:pharmacists and health care
Speaker:providers that's the first
Speaker:question I ask a pharmacy
Speaker:student that comes to learn
Speaker:from us here is why did you
Speaker:get into pharmacy and they
Speaker:say I want to help people
Speaker:right so we all want to be healers
Speaker:But then we get trained, right,
Speaker:as doctors and pharmacists
Speaker:in this Westworld medicine
Speaker:of allopathic disease, diagnosis,
Speaker:treatment.
Speaker:And then what are we taught?
Speaker:Like, we find out your problem.
Speaker:which is not patient-centered.
Speaker:We prescribe you a drug and
Speaker:put you in the system,
Speaker:and we tell you the drug is
Speaker:supposed to fix you or heal you.
Speaker:But in fact, for chronic conditions,
Speaker:we all know that that just
Speaker:masks the symptom of the problem.
Speaker:And it's funny, in the drug monographs,
Speaker:because in pharmacy school...
Speaker:I'm dated.
Speaker:I did it pharmacy school in
Speaker:the nineties is you'd pull
Speaker:out the package insert and
Speaker:the very top of it would be
Speaker:in conjunction with diet
Speaker:and lifestyle changes, take this medicine,
Speaker:but we kind of skip over that.
Speaker:And so we,
Speaker:you and I are talking about
Speaker:bringing these mindfulness
Speaker:practices into ourselves.
Speaker:I love what you talked about the,
Speaker:I call it the merging, right?
Speaker:The merging of your
Speaker:your parallel world of, Hey,
Speaker:I'm doing this for me,
Speaker:but it's actually really good here.
Speaker:And it just fit nicely.
Speaker:So we got to talk about this
Speaker:because this wasn't the case for like,
Speaker:you didn't learn this in medical school.
Speaker:Like you should treat
Speaker:yourself first and you
Speaker:should go within and close
Speaker:your eyes and be mindful.
Speaker:Like,
Speaker:So let's talk about, because what you do,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:You want to teach future
Speaker:generations of physicians
Speaker:and you happen to go along
Speaker:this journey and now we're
Speaker:figuring out the science,
Speaker:which is our Westworld brain,
Speaker:our scientific brains need to say,
Speaker:this has to match the thing, right?
Speaker:We talked about before this conversation,
Speaker:like there's
Speaker:Lots of peer-reviewed
Speaker:journals and studies now
Speaker:with mindfulness and
Speaker:neuroscience and
Speaker:neuroplasticity and how it
Speaker:affects the body and how
Speaker:this body-mind connection is a real thing,
Speaker:not a woo-woo shaman's been doing this.
Speaker:So this podcast is about
Speaker:ancient wisdom meets modern
Speaker:science for true healing.
Speaker:So one, we got to talk about that.
Speaker:But before we talk about that,
Speaker:I want you to talk from
Speaker:your own perspective about
Speaker:the issues we're having in
Speaker:healthcare today as it
Speaker:relates to the stress and
Speaker:burnout and emotional
Speaker:wellbeing issues we have in
Speaker:healthcare as it relates to providers.
Speaker:Like, yeah,
Speaker:because because when you went
Speaker:through med school,
Speaker:I'm pretty sure it wasn't
Speaker:the easiest experience of
Speaker:your life and all the
Speaker:students that you saw.
Speaker:But then you become a doctor
Speaker:and you're already like
Speaker:tell people about not only
Speaker:what mindfulness does, but before that,
Speaker:let's talk about stress
Speaker:burnout as it relates to
Speaker:being a physician.
Speaker:And the continued,
Speaker:I call it the feed forward
Speaker:cycle because the six
Speaker:minute visit and the profit
Speaker:first and all this stuff,
Speaker:we're bringing all that on.
Speaker:And so healthcare is a super stress.
Speaker:How do we, how do we,
Speaker:The brokenness for me,
Speaker:we're in one of the most
Speaker:stressful positions of any
Speaker:provider or or health care
Speaker:or not even health care of
Speaker:any profession.
Speaker:But we're supposed to be the
Speaker:people helping people get well.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:let's talk about the problem and then
Speaker:let's talk about that solution,
Speaker:because I think we're on
Speaker:the same wavelength on the solution part.
Speaker:Right, right, right.
Speaker:Gosh, okay.
Speaker:So it's like, I want people to know, like,
Speaker:from the doctor perspective, like,
Speaker:what's the normal day look like?
Speaker:And how is that?
Speaker:How does that work from the from the?
Speaker:Yeah, so, you know,
Speaker:why is it broken for you?
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:I think it goes back to the these
Speaker:sort of main core issues that we've,
Speaker:you know, talked about greed,
Speaker:uh profit driven model uh
Speaker:power struggle hierarchy um
Speaker:this lack of
Speaker:interconnectedness just
Speaker:seeing something and this
Speaker:just material sort of
Speaker:acquiring attainment perspective
Speaker:of, of training and a job.
Speaker:Walk,
Speaker:walk the person who's listening or
Speaker:watching this,
Speaker:like walk us through the life of how,
Speaker:how we're actually as providers,
Speaker:all doctors, pharmacists,
Speaker:healthcare providers,
Speaker:they want to do well.
Speaker:They really want to take care of people.
Speaker:Absolutely.
Speaker:But there's so many roadblocks for us.
Speaker:Totally, totally.
Speaker:And I think it goes back to
Speaker:this whole dream of reason
Speaker:forgot to take power into
Speaker:account and the way that we
Speaker:define power and the way
Speaker:that we define it is having and money
Speaker:and, you know, hierarchy and, you know,
Speaker:separating yourself from
Speaker:someone else based off of, you know,
Speaker:just how much you've
Speaker:accomplished or what your titles are or,
Speaker:you know, these types of things.
Speaker:So this whole dream of
Speaker:wanting to do well and help others,
Speaker:you know, it's there.
Speaker:It's very real, as you mentioned.
Speaker:That's the most...
Speaker:common reason that people go
Speaker:into this profession is
Speaker:they want to be compassionate providers.
Speaker:But all these issues that
Speaker:we've talked about do an
Speaker:injustice to the system and
Speaker:essentially set people up
Speaker:for failure because the
Speaker:reality of the situation is
Speaker:that when you go through
Speaker:all this training,
Speaker:you go through all this education,
Speaker:you land on the other side,
Speaker:you get your first job,
Speaker:you're immediately, you know,
Speaker:sooner than later,
Speaker:you're immediately faced
Speaker:with the reality of the situation is that,
Speaker:all right, there are outcomes.
Speaker:There are, you know,
Speaker:you have to be not only a
Speaker:very responsible, very, you know,
Speaker:intelligent and capable physician,
Speaker:but at the same time,
Speaker:while providing excellent care,
Speaker:you have to meet demands
Speaker:and you have to make sure that, you know,
Speaker:your wherever your work
Speaker:environment is whatever
Speaker:your revenue model is that
Speaker:it's that it's thriving and
Speaker:that you're an equal player
Speaker:um and for many individuals
Speaker:that that can end up me you
Speaker:know meaning taking on a
Speaker:significant amount of work
Speaker:that maybe you thought you
Speaker:know in your in all the the
Speaker:glory of of your profession
Speaker:and providing compassionate
Speaker:care and kind of
Speaker:what that does for your
Speaker:ethos that you thought you
Speaker:could take that on and you
Speaker:could do it day to day.
Speaker:But the reality of the
Speaker:situation is that it's impossible.
Speaker:It's really,
Speaker:really difficult for
Speaker:individuals in this type of
Speaker:environment to meet
Speaker:those types of demands and
Speaker:at the same time, by the way,
Speaker:live out this lifestyle and
Speaker:to a level of comfort that
Speaker:they thought that they
Speaker:would be able to acquire and maintain.
Speaker:And it's just sort of this
Speaker:sort of vicious revolving cycle of
Speaker:this having this perspective
Speaker:of acquiring this material
Speaker:perspective of making money
Speaker:for the organization,
Speaker:but also acquiring the next
Speaker:thing and just acquiring more in life.
Speaker:And, you know,
Speaker:once you are able to meet the mark,
Speaker:and you know, make the CEOs happy,
Speaker:then you know,
Speaker:it's just about making sure
Speaker:that you make enough at the
Speaker:end of the day to make sure that your
Speaker:your life is comfortable and
Speaker:you're always sort of just
Speaker:seeking comfort on a level
Speaker:that's defined by
Speaker:materialism and material
Speaker:needs and desires.
Speaker:And you just consistently
Speaker:want more and more and more of that.
Speaker:And you're always just
Speaker:chasing the same things over again.
Speaker:All right, meeting adequacy marks,
Speaker:meeting productivity levels,
Speaker:okay,
Speaker:making enough of a paycheck to have
Speaker:the things in life that I want.
Speaker:And, you know, this,
Speaker:the process and how
Speaker:medicine is structured sets
Speaker:us up to be that way.
Speaker:It creates our minds to be
Speaker:concerned about only these things.
Speaker:And
Speaker:It doesn't matter who you
Speaker:are and what you do.
Speaker:When you saturate the mind
Speaker:and our egos and our
Speaker:self-referential thinking
Speaker:process with these main
Speaker:things that matter most
Speaker:importantly in life,
Speaker:you're constantly just
Speaker:going to be worrying about those things.
Speaker:And then slowly,
Speaker:as you're acquiring more and more,
Speaker:as you're meeting these marks,
Speaker:the stress and the burnout,
Speaker:which is directly related
Speaker:to these things in your
Speaker:mind and other things you
Speaker:have to worry in your mind,
Speaker:uh whatever it may be the
Speaker:education that you're
Speaker:providing or the lack of
Speaker:education that you're
Speaker:providing your health
Speaker:outcomes how good they are
Speaker:how bad they are how well
Speaker:your patients are doing
Speaker:their long-term outcomes um
Speaker:you know your interactions
Speaker:with people at work not
Speaker:only at work in your
Speaker:personal life and your
Speaker:family how those things are
Speaker:being you know effective
Speaker:all these things are
Speaker:contributing to basically
Speaker:the stress of the mind
Speaker:which then basically as you
Speaker:and I are well aware
Speaker:translates to the stress of the body.
Speaker:And so, you know, that's,
Speaker:I guess the long and the short of it is,
Speaker:you know, it's a system,
Speaker:it's unfortunately,
Speaker:it's an issue that's
Speaker:created by and perpetuated
Speaker:by the system and how the
Speaker:system is created and run.
Speaker:And, you know,
Speaker:we are just unfortunately
Speaker:blind to the process as it's occurring.
Speaker:We think that we're meeting
Speaker:the market and we think
Speaker:that we're acquiring so
Speaker:that we think things are great,
Speaker:but slowly, incrementally,
Speaker:the stress is building up,
Speaker:the burnout's building up, you know,
Speaker:until we maybe get to a
Speaker:breaking point where we
Speaker:don't understand why things
Speaker:aren't going the way
Speaker:that they should or why am I
Speaker:having chronic stress?
Speaker:uh whatever it may be uh
Speaker:obesity insulin resistance
Speaker:substance abuse all these
Speaker:things that we use as um
Speaker:you know um the way our
Speaker:body our our body reacts to
Speaker:all this or the way that we
Speaker:may try to escape these
Speaker:types of um you know issues
Speaker:which is a huge piece right
Speaker:totally because what you
Speaker:said there's two things
Speaker:like the system is stacked
Speaker:against us because we go to these
Speaker:We go to these large institutions.
Speaker:There's a high amount of
Speaker:education needed to be a
Speaker:provider these days.
Speaker:Pharmacists and doctors, they're doctors.
Speaker:They go through this
Speaker:doctorate program and then
Speaker:they got to get the skillset.
Speaker:And so you spent this big,
Speaker:huge period of time because
Speaker:you really feel like you
Speaker:want to help other people
Speaker:you have a ton of debt and
Speaker:the reward at the end of the tunnel is,
Speaker:well,
Speaker:you can make a good living and you
Speaker:can do what you want to do,
Speaker:what you love to do.
Speaker:And then you get in the system.
Speaker:I've met plenty of doctors
Speaker:and now pharmacists are
Speaker:trying to get out of the
Speaker:system because the systems
Speaker:failed them because once they get in it,
Speaker:it's like now they're in the rat race.
Speaker:So they have to cover their
Speaker:debt and they're not paying
Speaker:actually able to do what
Speaker:they thought they were supposed to do,
Speaker:which is help people.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And so this is feed forward system,
Speaker:but then it creates that
Speaker:perpetuating stress with
Speaker:the downstream effects of
Speaker:stress is insulin resistance and obesity.
Speaker:And then what you said is
Speaker:like numbing the stress
Speaker:with the things on the
Speaker:outside that aren't so good for us.
Speaker:And then we get substance
Speaker:abuse and burnout is real.
Speaker:So thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker:Like,
Speaker:healthcare burnout,
Speaker:like people don't realize
Speaker:suicidal ideation for
Speaker:healthcare providers is at
Speaker:the top of the list.
Speaker:So
Speaker:We know there's a problem.
Speaker:We know it's in.
Speaker:And so the reason you are so
Speaker:called to do this as a
Speaker:provider for providers, mindfulness,
Speaker:talk to us a little bit about, well,
Speaker:talk to us a little bit
Speaker:about the science from your perspective,
Speaker:because I want people to
Speaker:realize we can say this
Speaker:stuff as we've already been through it,
Speaker:but we,
Speaker:you're seeing a ton of
Speaker:physicians and you're you
Speaker:work in a hospital system
Speaker:and you're radiologists and
Speaker:you've got all these
Speaker:different people in the
Speaker:system and they're they're
Speaker:not all like you right
Speaker:they're all pretty much
Speaker:burnt out and on the end of
Speaker:both they're burning the
Speaker:candle on both ends they're
Speaker:super stressed out and we
Speaker:can help them but talk to
Speaker:us a little bit about the
Speaker:solution here like
Speaker:mindfulness to you
Speaker:meditation what has it done
Speaker:for you and then
Speaker:What is the science here?
Speaker:Tell us a little bit from your perspective,
Speaker:because this will obviously
Speaker:flow into what we're doing here,
Speaker:but tell us a little bit about that,
Speaker:because I think it's
Speaker:important for people to
Speaker:hear it from the doctor who
Speaker:understands medical terminology,
Speaker:but also this is stuff that
Speaker:people have been doing for
Speaker:thousands of years, right?
Speaker:So talk to me about the science.
Speaker:I love the science of this stuff.
Speaker:We're bringing the ancient
Speaker:wisdom into the science piece now.
Speaker:Yeah, you know,
Speaker:it's all pretty straightforward,
Speaker:I would say.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:looking back at this model
Speaker:physician that we have who
Speaker:wants to do great,
Speaker:who wants to provide passionate care,
Speaker:compassionate care,
Speaker:and then ultimately gets
Speaker:trapped in this model that
Speaker:doesn't do justice to their aspirations,
Speaker:what they really,
Speaker:who they really want to be
Speaker:as a physician.
Speaker:not only does this person
Speaker:have to live and work in this model,
Speaker:they have to do what they set out to do.
Speaker:They have to be that
Speaker:compassionate physician day
Speaker:in and day out.
Speaker:They have to make lots of
Speaker:sacrifices to be that person,
Speaker:whatever it may be, waking up early,
Speaker:limiting their involvement
Speaker:in outings or vacations or whatever,
Speaker:just trying to be
Speaker:disciplined in that aspect,
Speaker:but also trying to be
Speaker:disciplined in being a
Speaker:compassionate provider.
Speaker:And those two things are
Speaker:really hard to do.
Speaker:They're,
Speaker:especially in the environment that
Speaker:healthcare providers have to work in,
Speaker:being compassionate and
Speaker:making sacrifices are just
Speaker:adding to the pressures on
Speaker:a certain individual.
Speaker:So it's not easy.
Speaker:It's not easy to provide
Speaker:compassionate care day in and day out.
Speaker:So you basically look at
Speaker:this model where somebody
Speaker:is trying to balance these
Speaker:two things that make them a
Speaker:wonderful not only person but physician.
Speaker:And then you look at the time in between.
Speaker:And the time in between when
Speaker:they're not working and
Speaker:they have this time off and
Speaker:they want to be, you know,
Speaker:they want to relieve themselves.
Speaker:What is the main issue
Speaker:that's not letting them be
Speaker:someone who's mindful or
Speaker:present or finding joy in
Speaker:their everyday circumstances?
Speaker:And it's what we've already talked about.
Speaker:It's the stress, it's the mind.
Speaker:It's this thing in our mind
Speaker:that continuously makes us
Speaker:think about ourselves.
Speaker:And in this environment
Speaker:where we're facing really hard work
Speaker:We have to provide excellent care.
Speaker:We have to be cognizant of our outcomes.
Speaker:We have to reduce our risk
Speaker:and responsibility.
Speaker:We have to train other people.
Speaker:We have to do that in an
Speaker:excellent way as well.
Speaker:Oh,
Speaker:but also I have to make sure that the
Speaker:business is running.
Speaker:And I have to make sure that
Speaker:I'm making enough money at
Speaker:the end of the day to live comfortably
Speaker:our mind has no other
Speaker:possible way to escape
Speaker:these components that are
Speaker:just basically the things
Speaker:that saturate us and that
Speaker:we're gonna constantly
Speaker:think about because it
Speaker:brings us back to us and
Speaker:our survival in this world
Speaker:and our perception of
Speaker:living as a thriving individual.
Speaker:And so the whole science
Speaker:behind it is basically
Speaker:breaking that cycle of
Speaker:thinking about me and my
Speaker:issues and the problems that I have.
Speaker:And instead of being
Speaker:consumed by anxiety and
Speaker:fear in the time that I have off,
Speaker:you're able to actually
Speaker:live in a way and
Speaker:experience the world with more joy,
Speaker:self-compassion,
Speaker:appreciation for your
Speaker:everyday circumstances and
Speaker:and everything you experience.
Speaker:And then that's the puzzle.
Speaker:So it's like, how do you make that happen?
Speaker:It's how do I not pay
Speaker:attention to my problems?
Speaker:How do I not pay attention
Speaker:to these things that are
Speaker:really important that
Speaker:affect me daily in my work
Speaker:and in my personal life?
Speaker:All of the anxieties and the
Speaker:fears that we accumulate
Speaker:that we're constantly thinking of.
Speaker:It's basically breaking this
Speaker:self-referential process in our mind.
Speaker:And there are a number of
Speaker:different networks in our
Speaker:brain that contribute to
Speaker:this self-referential process.
Speaker:But the main one is called
Speaker:the default mode network.
Speaker:And you've probably heard about it.
Speaker:And there are a number of
Speaker:different networks in the brain.
Speaker:There's a salience network.
Speaker:There's the central executive network.
Speaker:But basically the default
Speaker:mode network is the brain's
Speaker:way of basically
Speaker:continuously thinking about itself.
Speaker:And what we're able to do
Speaker:through meditation training
Speaker:is we're able to weaken the connectivity
Speaker:that network in the brain
Speaker:and we're able to amplify
Speaker:and strengthen connectivity
Speaker:of the other networks and
Speaker:the communication between
Speaker:the frontal lobe and namely
Speaker:the limbic system which you
Speaker:know controls things like
Speaker:our our memories our fears
Speaker:you know things that are
Speaker:more associated with our
Speaker:mammalian or more primitive
Speaker:brain and that allowed us
Speaker:to survive in our more
Speaker:primitive environments and
Speaker:when you strengthen certain
Speaker:connections and you weaken other ones,
Speaker:basically what you're
Speaker:allowing your brain to do
Speaker:is create a new type of
Speaker:connection between or
Speaker:you're trying to modify the
Speaker:connection between the
Speaker:frontal lobe and the limbic
Speaker:system so that you are able
Speaker:to not give your attention
Speaker:or pay so much time towards
Speaker:this self-referential thought process,
Speaker:which is the default mode network.
Speaker:And so that's that I would
Speaker:say is in a nutshell what
Speaker:we're trying to do.
Speaker:We're trying to lessen the
Speaker:control of the default mode
Speaker:network and we're trying to
Speaker:increase the strength in
Speaker:the activity and
Speaker:connections between other
Speaker:networks that allow the
Speaker:frontal lobe and the limbic
Speaker:system to communicate in a
Speaker:way that's new for us that
Speaker:we haven't really had the
Speaker:opportunity to experience before.
Speaker:And then
Speaker:When you're able to do that,
Speaker:you're able to basically
Speaker:enter a zone where there's
Speaker:there's just less thought.
Speaker:There's just less thinking overall.
Speaker:And as mentioned,
Speaker:the thinking about me or I-ness or,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:what is going to help me in my
Speaker:survival as this related to
Speaker:my fears or anxieties.
Speaker:And so a lot of the growth
Speaker:that comes through
Speaker:meditation and mindfulness
Speaker:comes in that space of clear thinking
Speaker:um you know essentially
Speaker:nothingness um quiet the
Speaker:mind right right exactly um
Speaker:this quiet zone where
Speaker:you're able to notice new
Speaker:things that you normally
Speaker:wouldn't notice either
Speaker:within yourself or in your
Speaker:environment um and and um
Speaker:develop new appreciation for
Speaker:these types of things.
Speaker:Where in your normal day to day,
Speaker:you don't give yourself
Speaker:that opportunity to even
Speaker:realize that there is a
Speaker:space like that that could
Speaker:potentially exist.
Speaker:So, yeah, it boils down to, I would say,
Speaker:these new connections,
Speaker:this communication between
Speaker:the frontal lobe and the
Speaker:limbic system kind of boils
Speaker:down to a few major things.
Speaker:One is attentional control.
Speaker:So deciding where we're
Speaker:going to give our attention,
Speaker:how much of our attention
Speaker:we're going to give it.
Speaker:And the other the other
Speaker:thing is emotional regulation,
Speaker:deciding what our response
Speaker:is going to be to the
Speaker:things that we experience
Speaker:and how much of an
Speaker:emotional response or what
Speaker:type of emotional response
Speaker:we want to give to that experience.
Speaker:And it could be anything
Speaker:from pain or fear or anxiety and then.
Speaker:When you come to this clear
Speaker:space of being able to
Speaker:evaluate things with less thought,
Speaker:you're able to train your
Speaker:mind in a way to say, you know what,
Speaker:I don't need to be as
Speaker:reactive to this thing that
Speaker:I normally have given X amount of
Speaker:my fear or anxiety response to.
Speaker:I don't need to even appreciate pain,
Speaker:even physical pain in a certain way,
Speaker:compared to how I normally would have
Speaker:in the past,
Speaker:and your brain sort of teaches
Speaker:your mind and your body of
Speaker:a new way of living and
Speaker:experiencing and reacting
Speaker:to basically everything around you,
Speaker:not only around you, but within you.
Speaker:So that's what I would say,
Speaker:without getting too much
Speaker:into the different anatomical components,
Speaker:just keeping it basic at the networks,
Speaker:understanding the
Speaker:connection between the
Speaker:frontal lobe and the limbic system,
Speaker:and then realizing that the
Speaker:two major players that
Speaker:we're trying to modify are our attention,
Speaker:and the control of our
Speaker:attention and the emotions
Speaker:and the regulation of our emotions,
Speaker:which includes actual
Speaker:physical response to pain.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:I firmly believe that like a lot of
Speaker:the way,
Speaker:the way I like say this stuff too,
Speaker:is like the limbic system
Speaker:is like the older brain.
Speaker:It's the mammalian brain is
Speaker:the fight fighter flip freeze.
Speaker:We w it's, it's there for a purpose,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:We, we can't survive without that part,
Speaker:but we've survived because.
Speaker:You know, we can run from the tiger.
Speaker:We don't get eaten.
Speaker:We go back to grazing.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:all mammals can get themselves out of
Speaker:that.
Speaker:There's no default for them
Speaker:to stay in fight or flight.
Speaker:They don't get eaten.
Speaker:They literally shake off the
Speaker:energy and they go back to
Speaker:their thing like nothing happened.
Speaker:But we have this thing called this nice,
Speaker:beautiful front brain, this neocortex,
Speaker:this frontal lobe,
Speaker:like all this creative space.
Speaker:And you're either in fight
Speaker:or flight or you're in rest and digest,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Sympathetic, parasympathetic.
Speaker:You can't be in both.
Speaker:And so I try to teach people, like,
Speaker:if you're in fight or flight,
Speaker:you can't be creative.
Speaker:You can't be in your zone.
Speaker:You can't do the things your
Speaker:beautiful human, like,
Speaker:evolved brain can do
Speaker:because you're still in
Speaker:that limbic state.
Speaker:I'm still fighting.
Speaker:I'm still freezing.
Speaker:I'm still here.
Speaker:And so I love what you kind
Speaker:of you kind of parallel the
Speaker:default mode because people
Speaker:get defaulted into that mode.
Speaker:In other words,
Speaker:people are in fight or flight.
Speaker:Seventy percent of the time.
Speaker:But we're not humanly evolved to do that.
Speaker:So how do we get out of the
Speaker:default and circle that
Speaker:flywheel backwards is through meditation,
Speaker:is creating those new
Speaker:neural networks and
Speaker:allowing us to create a new default,
Speaker:if you will,
Speaker:which is more in line with
Speaker:where we're supposed to be, right?
Speaker:So I loved all of that.
Speaker:That's beautiful.
Speaker:All right, let's talk about...
Speaker:your book, let's talk about like bringing,
Speaker:bringing providers to this place where
Speaker:we're moving them from
Speaker:survival to creation.
Speaker:We're moving them from this
Speaker:state of stress and burnout
Speaker:into this place where they,
Speaker:no matter what the stressor is,
Speaker:their perception, like,
Speaker:I love what you said is like,
Speaker:it's not just the awareness
Speaker:and where you put your awareness.
Speaker:It's also the emotional awareness.
Speaker:gravity to what you put to
Speaker:it or how long you extend that out,
Speaker:because we're all stressed.
Speaker:We're still in this environment, right?
Speaker:As health care providers and in the world,
Speaker:for Christ's sake,
Speaker:like everybody's stressed.
Speaker:So
Speaker:Talk to us a little bit about your book.
Speaker:What was the inspiration?
Speaker:Because I love this.
Speaker:I love this concept that you're bringing.
Speaker:Like you said, it's not new,
Speaker:but it's so needed.
Speaker:If we could get mindfulness in...
Speaker:I have this vision of having
Speaker:meditation classes in my pharmacy,
Speaker:like after hours,
Speaker:bringing people in and
Speaker:teaching them that this is it.
Speaker:And teaching providers,
Speaker:like we've already chatted about how,
Speaker:well, when, it's not if, it's when,
Speaker:the retreat for all of this
Speaker:is going to happen for providers,
Speaker:but talk to us a little bit
Speaker:about your book, the inspiration from it.
Speaker:Cause you're,
Speaker:you're a well-seasoned author
Speaker:now and you're,
Speaker:you're integrating all this and you're,
Speaker:you're now it's about the
Speaker:future generations, right.
Speaker:And getting people now.
Speaker:So talk to us a little bit
Speaker:about your book.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:The book, you know,
Speaker:as you hit on it in medicine, right.
Speaker:Mindfulness in medicine.
Speaker:Yes.
Speaker:Cool.
Speaker:Yeah, right.
Speaker:Mindfulness in medicine.
Speaker:And, you know, as you've hit on, it's,
Speaker:it's,
Speaker:we're not trying to reinvent the
Speaker:wheel here.
Speaker:We're, we're, we're packaging old,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:well respected and validated from us,
Speaker:even from a from a current
Speaker:scientific perspective um
Speaker:science into um into health
Speaker:care and in all different
Speaker:spaces and whatever that
Speaker:may look like whether it's
Speaker:um for the individual
Speaker:physician who just wants to
Speaker:make it or provider who
Speaker:wants to make it more a
Speaker:part of their own personal
Speaker:lives whether it's a clinic
Speaker:a medical department you
Speaker:know medical education
Speaker:a blueprint for anyone in
Speaker:healthcare who wants to
Speaker:find this way out from this
Speaker:cycle that's not getting
Speaker:them the wellness results
Speaker:that they want or is not
Speaker:allowing them to be the
Speaker:holistic type of
Speaker:practitioner that they want to be.
Speaker:a handbook that defines what it is,
Speaker:the basic science of how it works.
Speaker:It includes multiple recent
Speaker:publications that support
Speaker:all of this stuff along the way.
Speaker:There's also some appendices
Speaker:in the back that serve as
Speaker:an anecdotal guide for
Speaker:producing research.
Speaker:We found some really good
Speaker:recent articles that have
Speaker:been published and got a
Speaker:couple of the authors to
Speaker:agree to put in their
Speaker:experience in terms of
Speaker:putting together a study in
Speaker:mindfulness in the
Speaker:healthcare space and kind
Speaker:of how they went about doing that.
Speaker:So for anyone who's
Speaker:interested in producing research,
Speaker:that could be a very
Speaker:valuable guide to just
Speaker:glean some practical information from
Speaker:from those authors in terms
Speaker:of how they went about it.
Speaker:There's also,
Speaker:in terms of medical education
Speaker:and training,
Speaker:for anyone that's interested
Speaker:in making this potentially
Speaker:a more part of their training program,
Speaker:kind of what that would look like,
Speaker:how that would
Speaker:how they could go about it,
Speaker:how to facilitate access to
Speaker:and even structure a
Speaker:training program for both
Speaker:the teacher and the students.
Speaker:And even at a more
Speaker:far-reaching perspective of
Speaker:what this would actually
Speaker:look like if it were
Speaker:integrated into medical
Speaker:education and graduate
Speaker:medical education training,
Speaker:what the ACGME milestones
Speaker:would look like if they
Speaker:were adapted to include
Speaker:mindfulness as a measure in
Speaker:terms of a proficient
Speaker:doctor who's ready to go
Speaker:out in the world and
Speaker:provide compassionate care.
Speaker:So it touches on, you know,
Speaker:obviously there's a lot
Speaker:that we could have written
Speaker:and expanded about,
Speaker:but it touches on some of
Speaker:the more general aspects of
Speaker:healthcare as you would expect
Speaker:to be touched upon and how
Speaker:to integrate mindfulness
Speaker:into all of them.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:that's mostly what the book is about.
Speaker:What was your other question following?
Speaker:No,
Speaker:it's a big thing because here's the deal.
Speaker:Mindfulness, meditation,
Speaker:the research is irrefutable now.
Speaker:We know it's so important
Speaker:for immune function and
Speaker:pain and everything because
Speaker:it really does connect the
Speaker:mind and the body together.
Speaker:And so, in fact,
Speaker:I recently got privy to a
Speaker:new peer reviewed study
Speaker:that shows that like sixty
Speaker:six zero health conditions
Speaker:can be improved within one
Speaker:week with mindfulness.
Speaker:And so we know that this works.
Speaker:And then I love how you're
Speaker:like moving it to how does
Speaker:it relate to me?
Speaker:So this is a handbook for
Speaker:medical providers in any
Speaker:part of healthcare that not
Speaker:only can help themselves,
Speaker:but also help their
Speaker:practices move in that direction.
Speaker:So it's not just if mindfulness works,
Speaker:it's we know it works.
Speaker:And now how do we integrate
Speaker:it directly into the
Speaker:practice of mindfulness?
Speaker:of your specific modality, right?
Speaker:That's awesome.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:The second piece was you
Speaker:referred to it like, well, Anne,
Speaker:we've painted the picture of the future,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Because I know you're really
Speaker:passionate about this
Speaker:because it's who you are now.
Speaker:It's like you want to teach
Speaker:future generations.
Speaker:So how do we get these in
Speaker:the medical schools as part
Speaker:of the curriculum?
Speaker:How do we get these into the
Speaker:pharmacy schools where
Speaker:we're getting people there?
Speaker:So I love how you've touched
Speaker:on the science.
Speaker:You've touched on the
Speaker:practical aspects of doing it,
Speaker:how to actually get done.
Speaker:Because I think a lot of people think,
Speaker:you know, first thing I say is like,
Speaker:I don't meditate because
Speaker:I'm not good at it.
Speaker:It's like,
Speaker:there's no such thing as not
Speaker:good at meditation.
Speaker:If you can close your eyes and go within,
Speaker:you're pretty good, right?
Speaker:So we know that.
Speaker:So there's this part where
Speaker:you get them through that process.
Speaker:And I love that.
Speaker:And then you also...
Speaker:Then you move it into the medic.
Speaker:So there's this,
Speaker:it's like that fusion again.
Speaker:We talked about it,
Speaker:like moving in now into the profession,
Speaker:but I always love this piece because in,
Speaker:in healthcare or what we,
Speaker:I call sick care now, but in healthcare,
Speaker:when we're trying to people
Speaker:make people less sick,
Speaker:we don't have to really do
Speaker:what we teach in that space.
Speaker:Like, but in well care,
Speaker:you really have to do you first, right?
Speaker:You have to be a product of your product.
Speaker:And so this teaches you how
Speaker:to meditate this.
Speaker:So this is why you do you,
Speaker:but then you help others
Speaker:through your own process too.
Speaker:So it's not just, well,
Speaker:how do I bring mindfulness into medicine?
Speaker:It's you're the first,
Speaker:you're patient number one, right?
Speaker:so yeah I love that part and
Speaker:it's it makes great sense
Speaker:and every single health
Speaker:care provider that wants to
Speaker:do wellness or well care or
Speaker:healing or you know is that
Speaker:is the big shift that I've
Speaker:always seen everyone is
Speaker:like you can't just
Speaker:prescribe it for someone
Speaker:else you gotta live your own
Speaker:life there so yeah exactly
Speaker:and I'll just I'll just tie
Speaker:it together you know based
Speaker:off of what you said and
Speaker:this really touches on the
Speaker:the medical education and
Speaker:training side of things and
Speaker:what that actually looks
Speaker:like in terms of
Speaker:implementing mindfulness
Speaker:into medical education and training it's
Speaker:not only is it learning it
Speaker:for yourself and figuring
Speaker:out how you're going to
Speaker:make this part of your personal life,
Speaker:your personal schedule so
Speaker:that you are able to become
Speaker:a more mindful provider.
Speaker:But what the book talks
Speaker:about and how it sort of
Speaker:ties it all together in
Speaker:terms of being truly a holistic provider,
Speaker:what you have to do is help
Speaker:your patients and teach
Speaker:your patients how to be mindful as well.
Speaker:So it's one of these curiosities and,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:sort of paradoxes that I've
Speaker:always viewed in medicine
Speaker:is that we teach the breath
Speaker:and respiration as a vital sign.
Speaker:And we measure it.
Speaker:And there's multiple
Speaker:different ways to measure
Speaker:it and get a good
Speaker:understanding of someone's
Speaker:physiology based off of
Speaker:their respiratory pattern
Speaker:and how much they're breathing.
Speaker:but we don't teach at a very
Speaker:basic level the how to breathe.
Speaker:And that's really what
Speaker:mindfulness is at its core.
Speaker:It's teaching how to breathe.
Speaker:So if you read the book,
Speaker:a core component of
Speaker:bringing it into your healthcare space,
Speaker:whatever that may be, your personal space,
Speaker:your clinic,
Speaker:your department your medical
Speaker:education place yes you've
Speaker:touched on it it's learning
Speaker:how to do it yourself and
Speaker:learning how to do the
Speaker:practice autonomously and
Speaker:do it from a committed
Speaker:perspective you know day in
Speaker:and day out because that's
Speaker:really where you get the
Speaker:most bang for your buck in
Speaker:terms of growth and all this um
Speaker:But not only doing that,
Speaker:but doing it for your
Speaker:patients and teaching your
Speaker:patients how to potentially
Speaker:get ahead of a lot of all
Speaker:these psychosomatic
Speaker:problems that we're seeing
Speaker:out there where stress is the
Speaker:the major player at the end
Speaker:of the day and being able
Speaker:to control and slow down
Speaker:the mind and have less
Speaker:stress and what that looks
Speaker:like practically in a
Speaker:patient interaction and how
Speaker:you would go about doing that.
Speaker:And it's really simple.
Speaker:You block off.
Speaker:a little bit of time that
Speaker:you have maybe as you greet
Speaker:the patient or as you
Speaker:oscillate their lungs maybe
Speaker:before or afterwards uh or
Speaker:if you see them on a
Speaker:telemedicine visit you know
Speaker:even as they're leaving
Speaker:your clinic or your or the
Speaker:bedside and or or um
Speaker:you know on the way out the
Speaker:door you know there's
Speaker:always a little bit of time
Speaker:that you can grasp and
Speaker:implement mindfulness
Speaker:teaching and it's you know
Speaker:the most simple of things
Speaker:just putting someone in
Speaker:tune to their breath
Speaker:understanding you know the
Speaker:different components of the
Speaker:breath understanding how to
Speaker:measure it you know and
Speaker:just advocating to
Speaker:potentially make that a
Speaker:daily part of their lives.
Speaker:And there may be many
Speaker:different types of
Speaker:reception to this type of
Speaker:teaching out there.
Speaker:So obviously,
Speaker:it's not something that we're
Speaker:trying to impose or give a
Speaker:message that it should be
Speaker:imposed on anyone.
Speaker:But I think the fact of the matter is,
Speaker:and this is just my personal opinion,
Speaker:is that
Speaker:for something as simple as it is,
Speaker:that doesn't really require
Speaker:a complex discussion or even teaching,
Speaker:it may be well received by
Speaker:a good number of patients.
Speaker:Something that's just giving
Speaker:them the opportunity to become
Speaker:um less stress more calm and
Speaker:hey by the way this may
Speaker:help long term in some
Speaker:chronic you know health
Speaker:conditions attaching that
Speaker:message into your um you
Speaker:know your your you know
Speaker:checkups wellness business
Speaker:whatever it may be this is
Speaker:making it a standard part
Speaker:of your care um you know
Speaker:can go a long way I love
Speaker:that because it's beautiful
Speaker:because I just had this like it
Speaker:vision of like because you
Speaker:talked about like why not
Speaker:just incorporate this into
Speaker:how we're trained as
Speaker:physicians because we we've
Speaker:learned it that science is
Speaker:irrefutable which means it
Speaker:should be put into the
Speaker:curriculum because the
Speaker:science is now supporting
Speaker:all the things we want to
Speaker:support in a scientific based curriculum
Speaker:So I just had this vision of
Speaker:like when you're
Speaker:oscillating and you've got
Speaker:the stethoscope and you're
Speaker:watching their breath,
Speaker:but you're actually
Speaker:teaching them at the same
Speaker:time like how to breathe
Speaker:and how to be mindful
Speaker:because that's what we do, right?
Speaker:What can we do in this new
Speaker:paradigm of health coming?
Speaker:of the things we're already doing, right?
Speaker:We can incorporate it into
Speaker:the six minute visit, even if we had to,
Speaker:we could, right?
Speaker:It's not something extra to do.
Speaker:And I love that piece.
Speaker:So thank you for kind of
Speaker:putting that into my own mindset.
Speaker:I too believe like,
Speaker:This is something we can be
Speaker:doing is like for me, it's like, oh,
Speaker:the patient comes in for a
Speaker:blood pressure medicine or
Speaker:anxiety medicine or anything.
Speaker:It's like, hey,
Speaker:did you know that I could
Speaker:change your blood pressure
Speaker:by ten points on systolic
Speaker:if I just teach you how to
Speaker:breathe a little bit different?
Speaker:Because you're already breathing, right?
Speaker:So you might as well just if
Speaker:you breathe a little bit.
Speaker:I love James Nestor's book, Breath.
Speaker:It's a great, great book.
Speaker:So mindfulness in medicine,
Speaker:how do people get that book?
Speaker:If a provider or someone
Speaker:that knows a provider that this is like,
Speaker:you gotta get this,
Speaker:how do people get your book?
Speaker:How do they get in front of that?
Speaker:Yeah, just mindfulness in medicine,
Speaker:searching it up,
Speaker:it's released through Springer Nature.
Speaker:So mindfulness in medicine,
Speaker:Springer Nature,
Speaker:it'll be probably the first
Speaker:hit that you see online.
Speaker:available as an ebook, but also in print.
Speaker:And yeah,
Speaker:it's also just one of those
Speaker:things that will help the
Speaker:provider-patient relationship.
Speaker:It's just something that you
Speaker:both potentially are
Speaker:building upon in your
Speaker:personal lives and
Speaker:something to talk about in
Speaker:terms of progress and kind
Speaker:of where it's taking you
Speaker:and how you notice a change
Speaker:in your health or just
Speaker:overall perspective of
Speaker:things and something to bring you closer
Speaker:to your patients at the end of the day.
Speaker:And even your colleagues,
Speaker:like it could become a
Speaker:potential team building practice,
Speaker:something you can identify
Speaker:a mindfulness champion in
Speaker:your practice or your
Speaker:clinic or organization that
Speaker:can help spearhead some of
Speaker:these efforts and really
Speaker:bring the team together and
Speaker:foster the sense of
Speaker:interconnectedness and
Speaker:really develop the community
Speaker:um at your workplace um so
Speaker:yeah just uh beyond the the
Speaker:positive health effects um
Speaker:it's uh really a way to I
Speaker:think bring you closer
Speaker:socially um in a more
Speaker:comfortable way not only
Speaker:with your patients but with
Speaker:your with your colleagues
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:I love it because the science is
Speaker:irrefutable.
Speaker:It's not if we should do this anymore.
Speaker:I feel mindfulness,
Speaker:my own meditation practice,
Speaker:learning Dr. Joe Dispenza's
Speaker:stuff is all in the place for me.
Speaker:It was the game changer in
Speaker:my own evolution personally
Speaker:and my own spiritual journey,
Speaker:but also literally my own health journey.
Speaker:And I think incorporating
Speaker:this as practitioners is
Speaker:paramount to the success we
Speaker:have in this world because
Speaker:we all know like eighty,
Speaker:eighty plus percent of
Speaker:patients that see a doctor
Speaker:are rooted around the one word stress.
Speaker:So how do you get to that is
Speaker:you get in front of it,
Speaker:but what do you do now?
Speaker:So what, what about people like just,
Speaker:just generalize people?
Speaker:You have patients, you see them,
Speaker:you talk to them about this.
Speaker:What are some steps that you
Speaker:could give this list,
Speaker:these listeners on this podcast here?
Speaker:Cause most people here, they're already,
Speaker:they're listening to this.
Speaker:They kind of want to go beyond the pills,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:That's the thing here, right?
Speaker:So what do you tell your
Speaker:patients if they're like,
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:I'm kind of interested.
Speaker:What do I do?
Speaker:Like,
Speaker:do you have like first steps for
Speaker:people or places where they can go?
Speaker:Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker:Um, so I mean with,
Speaker:I think with most things there should be,
Speaker:I think maybe we've already
Speaker:covered this step or we're
Speaker:getting to the person who's
Speaker:already covered the step.
Speaker:There should be a,
Speaker:a natural sort of want or
Speaker:desire inclination to,
Speaker:to make either make a
Speaker:change or to experience
Speaker:know the world or life or
Speaker:their health in a different
Speaker:way um and I think you know
Speaker:once you've uh accepted
Speaker:that this is something that
Speaker:you want to try and you
Speaker:want to implement into your
Speaker:life um you know the next
Speaker:next major hurdle is commitment is um
Speaker:And I think that's maybe
Speaker:some of the trap that we
Speaker:fall into with current
Speaker:other wellness practices out there.
Speaker:There's a number of
Speaker:different things that
Speaker:people can do in the aim of wellness.
Speaker:But as you said,
Speaker:the science is irrefutable.
Speaker:I don't think many other
Speaker:wellness practices have the
Speaker:type of science and
Speaker:publications to speak for
Speaker:it that meditation and mindfulness does.
Speaker:And the reason that it's so
Speaker:powerful is because it's
Speaker:something that you do every
Speaker:day and you train your mind
Speaker:and body to be a different
Speaker:way based off of a regimented approach.
Speaker:So I would say that
Speaker:acceptance is the first hurdle,
Speaker:commitment is the next hurdle.
Speaker:And it's something that if
Speaker:you really wanna
Speaker:get the most out of it that
Speaker:you have to practice every
Speaker:day and you have to be
Speaker:prepared to practice every day.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:not just one of those things that where
Speaker:you kind of say, okay,
Speaker:I'm having a bad day and I
Speaker:kind of want to be more stressful.
Speaker:I'm just going to do a
Speaker:little bit of a meditation practice.
Speaker:It's not a pill for stress, right?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:And so, um,
Speaker:so I would say once you get
Speaker:into the commitment, then it's just, um,
Speaker:learning the steps and, you know,
Speaker:start basic as you do with anything else.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:guided meditations,
Speaker:I think are probably the
Speaker:best way to go initially.
Speaker:That's how I started doing it.
Speaker:And start small from a commitment aspect,
Speaker:as you can imagine with other things,
Speaker:like even physical exercise, like
Speaker:You don't just go in there
Speaker:and just kind of hit it as
Speaker:hard as you can if you've
Speaker:never exercised before and
Speaker:expect to maintain that as
Speaker:much as possible.
Speaker:Start with maybe five minutes once a day.
Speaker:Do a guided meditation.
Speaker:um when you're ready for it
Speaker:or if you think you can
Speaker:handle twice a day just do
Speaker:twice a day um and then as
Speaker:you increase the length of
Speaker:the guidance I like the
Speaker:mindfulness app a lot I
Speaker:think it's kind of like a
Speaker:very just routine um
Speaker:general guidance that um
Speaker:touches on all the things
Speaker:that you need to learn to
Speaker:be able to do it on your own um and
Speaker:Once you're ready for it, do twice a day.
Speaker:I would say after maybe a
Speaker:couple of weeks or months,
Speaker:you can increase the length.
Speaker:So instead of doing five
Speaker:minutes twice a day,
Speaker:maybe you can do ten or
Speaker:fifteen minutes twice a day.
Speaker:Keep that up for as long as you can.
Speaker:If you feel comfortable, keep it there.
Speaker:If you think you're ready
Speaker:for more at some point, try half an hour.
Speaker:Try maybe even an hour if you can do that.
Speaker:Practically speaking,
Speaker:it's not really possible
Speaker:for people to fit that into their life.
Speaker:or to really identify how
Speaker:they can modify their
Speaker:schedule to fit that in.
Speaker:But what we do know about
Speaker:the science is that the longer you do it,
Speaker:the more time you accrue intuitively,
Speaker:that's where you see more results.
Speaker:You see more changes,
Speaker:not only in the brain,
Speaker:but personally and socially.
Speaker:And so, aim for higher.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:and then what happens is after doing
Speaker:guided meditations for
Speaker:months and months and maybe even,
Speaker:you know, up to a year or something,
Speaker:you sort of just learn the
Speaker:steps and you learn the process.
Speaker:And it's, it's like, okay,
Speaker:now I know what they're asking me to do.
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:Now I know what, what,
Speaker:what I'm supposed to be doing next.
Speaker:Now I know how it's supposed
Speaker:to be paying attention to my environment,
Speaker:anything I experienced.
Speaker:Now I know kind of how to
Speaker:pay attention to what I'm
Speaker:experiencing within myself and
Speaker:oh, by the way,
Speaker:how to keep my breath as an
Speaker:anchor throughout the whole process,
Speaker:how to return to it.
Speaker:You just sort of figure out
Speaker:the name of the game and
Speaker:the different steps involved.
Speaker:And then you can get rid of the guidance.
Speaker:And you can sort of do
Speaker:without the guidance.
Speaker:And I think that should be a
Speaker:goal that you should maybe
Speaker:strive to is just to be
Speaker:able to do it in any
Speaker:circumstance in a
Speaker:comfortable place where you
Speaker:can find seating.
Speaker:You don't necessarily have
Speaker:to have a device with you to help you.
Speaker:and um and yeah just you
Speaker:know uh the rest will take
Speaker:care of itself it's like uh
Speaker:these one of these sayings
Speaker:that I like is you speak
Speaker:the truth you follow the
Speaker:truth and then the rest
Speaker:will take care of itself
Speaker:it'll your body will learn
Speaker:how to do it,
Speaker:you may end up wanting to do it more,
Speaker:you may appreciate it more,
Speaker:you may start noticing the benefits,
Speaker:and that may, you know,
Speaker:push you to keep doing it and keep it up.
Speaker:But, you know, it's,
Speaker:it's about getting to that level, I think,
Speaker:and,
Speaker:and putting up with a commitment
Speaker:until you can become more
Speaker:sort of autopilot with all of this stuff.
Speaker:And then, you know, you talk about sort of
Speaker:know what you're you're
Speaker:getting out of it at the
Speaker:end of the day and I don't
Speaker:really like this uh this
Speaker:idea of like acquiring
Speaker:something or there being
Speaker:this goal or you know there
Speaker:being like this sort of
Speaker:thing you're trying to
Speaker:achieve but you know for
Speaker:all different types of
Speaker:people and all different
Speaker:levels of practice there
Speaker:are many different benefits
Speaker:that one can experience um
Speaker:And, you know,
Speaker:you talk about this state of
Speaker:Zen or this state of just, you know,
Speaker:Dr. I think Dispenza called
Speaker:it super consciousness or
Speaker:something like that.
Speaker:You know, there's- Gamma.
Speaker:Yeah, gamma.
Speaker:There's this whole different range of
Speaker:of cumulative hours and kind
Speaker:of what defines a beginner
Speaker:versus what defines an intermediate,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:meditator versus what defines an
Speaker:expert or somebody who is
Speaker:able to achieve that state
Speaker:of Zen or gamma or super
Speaker:consciousness or whatever it may be.
Speaker:For someone like that,
Speaker:from my most recent understanding,
Speaker:you're talking about tens
Speaker:of thousands of hours of
Speaker:cumulative meditation.
Speaker:I tell people, just look at your schedule.
Speaker:What would that take?
Speaker:If you were to start now and
Speaker:you were to do twenty
Speaker:minutes twice a day,
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:how long would it take you to
Speaker:just do the math?
Speaker:Anyone can just do the math at that point.
Speaker:But I would say in between,
Speaker:there are multiple, even from day one,
Speaker:There are multiple benefits
Speaker:that you can acquire,
Speaker:especially with respect to
Speaker:decreasing your stress,
Speaker:especially with respect to
Speaker:living more joyously, more harmoniously,
Speaker:extracting the
Speaker:the everything,
Speaker:everything positive from
Speaker:the present moment,
Speaker:and carrying that into your
Speaker:professional life.
Speaker:And even being able to
Speaker:deliver that message to
Speaker:your patients and teaching
Speaker:them how to do it.
Speaker:All of that stuff is some,
Speaker:I would say stuff that
Speaker:comes early on beyond a
Speaker:certain level of commitment,
Speaker:because I think it goes
Speaker:back to this major point of
Speaker:having to do it yourself
Speaker:and becoming adept at it
Speaker:yourself and being able, you know,
Speaker:comfortable enough to know
Speaker:kind of what you're talking
Speaker:about and know how to teach it as well.
Speaker:Yeah, it's amazing because yes,
Speaker:so you don't have to be a guru.
Speaker:You don't have to sit there
Speaker:for ten hours a day doing
Speaker:this and being peaceful
Speaker:under the Bodhi tree, right?
Speaker:But what you can do is start
Speaker:by starting like five
Speaker:minutes a day is all you
Speaker:need to do to start.
Speaker:Now,
Speaker:does it get you enlightenment at five
Speaker:minutes a day?
Speaker:No.
Speaker:But it starts, right?
Speaker:I use Oura Ring.
Speaker:It tracks heart rate variability.
Speaker:It allows me to see the momentum, right?
Speaker:Oura Ring also is a great example.
Speaker:Get a guided meditation.
Speaker:It's not easy to just do
Speaker:this yourself at first.
Speaker:I always say the easiest
Speaker:places to get this done is
Speaker:before you get out of bed
Speaker:or right when you wake up,
Speaker:before you start your day
Speaker:and the whirlwind hits you,
Speaker:and before you go to bed.
Speaker:Those are two nice bookends
Speaker:that you can separate a few minutes out.
Speaker:I always say five minutes is good.
Speaker:Ten minutes is better.
Speaker:Fifteen is great.
Speaker:Once a day is good.
Speaker:Twice a day is better.
Speaker:Three times a day is great.
Speaker:That gets people to start.
Speaker:Because anybody can do
Speaker:anything for less than an hour a day.
Speaker:We can just find it.
Speaker:right so I love that you
Speaker:kind of just brought that
Speaker:in is like you don't and
Speaker:then you build over time
Speaker:those coherence that that
Speaker:that default becomes
Speaker:different over time because
Speaker:it's like the bank account
Speaker:right you don't become a
Speaker:millionaire overnight you
Speaker:got to put in money slowly
Speaker:and you got to build the
Speaker:bank account well this is
Speaker:like building the coherence
Speaker:bank account this is
Speaker:getting that into that place so
Speaker:You hit all the buttons that
Speaker:I love to hit with that.
Speaker:So cool.
Speaker:Mindfulness in medicine.
Speaker:My new friend, this is amazing.
Speaker:I'm so glad that you were able to do this.
Speaker:I know that we're going to
Speaker:be doing some fun stuff
Speaker:together because I feel
Speaker:like we're in this place
Speaker:and in this time for the right reasons.
Speaker:Let's get in front of this
Speaker:in medicine because this is
Speaker:where true change does happen.
Speaker:And thank you so much for
Speaker:doing what you do,
Speaker:being so passionate about it too,
Speaker:because you are a super
Speaker:busy physician and you're
Speaker:still doing this and you
Speaker:already exude what it looks like, right?
Speaker:You're chill, you're just relaxed.
Speaker:This is,
Speaker:I can see you in practice like this.
Speaker:Who doesn't want to go to a
Speaker:physician like that, right?
Speaker:Amazing, my friend.
Speaker:Thank you so much.
Speaker:This was awesome.
Speaker:I appreciate that.
Speaker:No, I think it was, it was wonderful.
Speaker:Um, you mentioned heart rate variability.
Speaker:So I just have to say one
Speaker:time a heart rate variability.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:I am a total advocate for in the
Speaker:morning and in the evenings,
Speaker:but a large part of what
Speaker:we're doing with meditation
Speaker:and mindfulness is teaching
Speaker:our parasympathetic nervous system.
Speaker:to communicate with our
Speaker:sympathetic nervous system
Speaker:and how to do that in a way
Speaker:that is in harmony,
Speaker:more harmony with our body.
Speaker:And sometimes implementing a
Speaker:meditation practice after
Speaker:something that stimulates
Speaker:you from a sympathetic nervous system
Speaker:perspective in the least
Speaker:opportune of circumstances,
Speaker:really sort of telling your mind that,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:even though this may not seem comfortable,
Speaker:you may not want to try it.
Speaker:There's a lot of benefits to
Speaker:be to be to be gained out of meditation,
Speaker:even when it may not seem
Speaker:like it's the most
Speaker:comfortable thing to do at the time.
Speaker:That's the last little plug I'll make.
Speaker:No, I love that.
Speaker:That's also the piece is like,
Speaker:it's not when you're the most calm.
Speaker:I just like that to get them going.
Speaker:Like the middle of the day one is great.
Speaker:It's like, oh,
Speaker:because you can actually go
Speaker:from a depletion state to a
Speaker:renewal state in a short period of time.
Speaker:So thank you for actually adding that.
Speaker:Cause that's exactly,
Speaker:it's not this or that.
Speaker:It's like get the reps in,
Speaker:build the bank account.
Speaker:And at the same time,
Speaker:you can do this stuff in the moment.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:It's nature's Xanax, right?
Speaker:You can do it in the moment.
Speaker:You can chill yourself out
Speaker:in five minutes or less.
Speaker:I also do this too.
Speaker:This is cool.
Speaker:Maybe this is why we're
Speaker:supposed to continue.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Is every three hours, three minutes,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:I put it on my phone.
Speaker:It's it's it's focusing your
Speaker:breath for three minutes
Speaker:every three hours in your workday.
Speaker:Anybody can do that.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And it's just it's one pause.
Speaker:No matter where you're at,
Speaker:you can do that.
Speaker:And so these are really good
Speaker:tips and tricks and hacks for anybody,
Speaker:but especially so in
Speaker:between office visits.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:In between patients, you know,
Speaker:you're not going to be
Speaker:doing it maybe not at first in the visit.
Speaker:But in between visits, you all,
Speaker:you have a little bit of
Speaker:time where you can just put
Speaker:a little bookend on it.
Speaker:You don't have to go into Zen mode.
Speaker:You could literally just do it in the,
Speaker:in the moment.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Cause that's a really good,
Speaker:imagine getting reset
Speaker:before you go to the next
Speaker:patient when you're triggered.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And I guess one of the most
Speaker:important things is what
Speaker:you learn is carrying that
Speaker:mindset into your wakeful
Speaker:moments where you're
Speaker:actually doing work or
Speaker:interacting with somebody,
Speaker:learning how to entrain the
Speaker:breath in those moments.
Speaker:And, um,
Speaker:how it creates that space
Speaker:that we talked about to
Speaker:experience those moments differently.
Speaker:I guess that's the whole
Speaker:idea of all of this.
Speaker:And so, yeah, I feel like, you know,
Speaker:there's,
Speaker:we could continue talking about
Speaker:this for hours, but it's been really,
Speaker:really wonderful.
Speaker:Thank you for giving me the
Speaker:opportunity and, you know,
Speaker:we should maybe do it again
Speaker:sometime or keep the conversation going.
Speaker:Can't wait to meet you in person,
Speaker:my friend.
Speaker:This was awesome.
Speaker:Thank you guys.
Speaker:Everybody stay well.
Speaker:Oh.
