#67: The Omega-3 Advantage: Dr. William S. Harris on Fighting Inflammation & Boosting Health
Is your body getting enough Omega-3s? The answer might surprise you.
Inflammation is a silent killer. It plays a key role in chronic diseases like heart disease, cognitive decline, joint pain, and even depression—yet many people don’t realize that something as simple as their omega-3 levels could be the missing piece to better health.
On this episode of Beyond The Pills, host Josh Rimany sits down with one of the world's foremost experts in omega-3 research, Dr. William S. Harris, PhD, FASN. With over 40 years of groundbreaking research, 300+ scientific papers, and contributions to multiple American Heart Association statements on fatty acids and heart health, Dr. Harris has changed the way we understand the role of omega-3s in reducing inflammation, supporting heart and brain health, and improving overall wellness.
As the co-inventor of the Omega-3 Index and founder of OmegaQuant Analytics, Dr. Harris brings cutting-edge insights into why measuring your omega-3 levels could be the key to unlocking better health. We’ll explore:
✅ What the Omega-3 Index is and why it matters
✅ The connection between omega-3s and inflammation, heart disease, and cognitive function
✅ How you can optimize your health by balancing your fatty acid levels
✅ The latest research on omega-3s and what the medical field is missing
If you’ve ever wondered whether you’re getting enough omega-3s or how they can dramatically impact your well-being, this is the episode for you. Tune in and take the next step toward better health—beyond the pills!
🌐 Learn more at: www.omegaquant.com | www.faresinst.org
Transcript
All right.
Speaker:Hello.
Speaker:Hello.
Speaker:Welcome to this episode of
Speaker:Beyond the Pills.
Speaker:I'm Josh Rimini, pharmacist turned healer.
Speaker:And today I have a very special guest,
Speaker:Dr. Bill Harris,
Speaker:who has been the leading
Speaker:researcher in the
Speaker:omega-three fatty acid
Speaker:field for over forty years.
Speaker:He has over three hundred
Speaker:scientific papers on fatty
Speaker:acids and health and the
Speaker:vast majority on omega-three.
Speaker:He has been on the faculty
Speaker:of three medical schools,
Speaker:the University of Kansas, Missouri,
Speaker:at Kansas City, and South Dakota,
Speaker:and has received five NIH
Speaker:grants to study omega-three.
Speaker:He was also the co-author on
Speaker:three AHA statements on
Speaker:fatty acids and heart health.
Speaker:We'll talk a lot about that.
Speaker:As the co-inventor of
Speaker:the omega-three index and
Speaker:other omega-three blood
Speaker:tests in the founder of
Speaker:OmegaQuant Analytics.
Speaker:Dr. Harris has been ranked
Speaker:among the top two percent
Speaker:of scientists worldwide
Speaker:based on the impact of his research.
Speaker:Welcome.
Speaker:Welcome, Dr. Bill Harris.
Speaker:Thank you so much for coming.
Speaker:You bet, Josh.
Speaker:Great to be here.
Speaker:Nice to talk with you.
Speaker:Man, I've
Speaker:As the pharmacist who turned
Speaker:un-pharmacist going to
Speaker:functional medicine,
Speaker:I learned a lot about omega-three.
Speaker:And recently, let's say the last ten years,
Speaker:learned about omega-three indexing.
Speaker:And so I'm very proud and
Speaker:privileged and honored to
Speaker:have the co-founder,
Speaker:co-creator of the omega-three indexing.
Speaker:And I want to jump right in.
Speaker:I want to talk about...
Speaker:your story and how you got into all this.
Speaker:Oh, how did I get into all this?
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:I was told by my mentor to get into this.
Speaker:This was back in nineteen seventy nine.
Speaker:I was finished.
Speaker:I had finished a Ph.D.
Speaker:in nutrition at the
Speaker:University of Minnesota,
Speaker:and I went to Portland, Oregon,
Speaker:Oregon Health Sciences
Speaker:University to do a
Speaker:postdoctoral fellowship
Speaker:with a scientist named Bill Connor.
Speaker:And Bill was very interested
Speaker:in the effects of different
Speaker:dietary fats on cholesterol
Speaker:levels back in the late seventies.
Speaker:And he was particularly
Speaker:curious about what would
Speaker:happen if you fed people a
Speaker:lot of fish oil,
Speaker:as opposed to plant seed
Speaker:oils or solid fats, like saturated fats,
Speaker:butter, meat, things like that.
Speaker:he said you know fish fish
Speaker:oil is a liquid oil at room
Speaker:temperature like plant oils
Speaker:are but it comes from an
Speaker:animal not a plant and so
Speaker:we knew the plant plant
Speaker:oils are liquid and they
Speaker:lowered cholesterol levels
Speaker:but the in the saturated
Speaker:fats and animal fats raise
Speaker:cholesterol so bill was
Speaker:curious about here's this
Speaker:animal liquid oil what does
Speaker:it do to people so that was
Speaker:my assignment and I took me
Speaker:a couple of years to do a
Speaker:a trial where we fed people
Speaker:we recruited students uh
Speaker:fed them different diets
Speaker:for one month at a time we
Speaker:fed them a whole bunch of
Speaker:salmon oil that was our oil
Speaker:of the day back then and uh
Speaker:I mean a whole bunch
Speaker:meaning all virtually all
Speaker:their fat from salmon oil
Speaker:so it was huge they you
Speaker:know like a half like a
Speaker:half a cup a day of salmon
Speaker:oil that they just drank which was
Speaker:Pretty gross, but they did it.
Speaker:Anyway,
Speaker:we found out that the cholesterol
Speaker:level did go down on the
Speaker:salmon oil diet like it did
Speaker:on the vegetable oil diet
Speaker:relative to the saturated fat diet.
Speaker:And so that was fine.
Speaker:It didn't go down a lot,
Speaker:but these were healthy people.
Speaker:But the triglyceride levels
Speaker:dropped pretty substantially,
Speaker:and that was kind of a surprise.
Speaker:That was the first kind of
Speaker:discovery that omega-threes
Speaker:lowered triglycerides.
Speaker:But that put me into
Speaker:learning about salmon oil
Speaker:and about the same time
Speaker:that the Danish Greenland
Speaker:Eskimo studies were being
Speaker:published about how it
Speaker:seemed like there's
Speaker:something about these
Speaker:omega-threes that reduce
Speaker:risk for heart disease in Eskimos.
Speaker:And so I started to learn
Speaker:more about that and started
Speaker:to look at blood coagulation platelet
Speaker:platelet action, platelet inhibition,
Speaker:because the omega-threes did that too.
Speaker:We didn't know what the
Speaker:mechanisms were of how the
Speaker:omega-threes lowered risk,
Speaker:but we were starting to
Speaker:explore it back there in
Speaker:the early eighties.
Speaker:And I've been pretty much,
Speaker:I guess the first half,
Speaker:first twenty years of my career,
Speaker:I was interested in giving
Speaker:people fish oil and see what it did,
Speaker:sort of intervention studies.
Speaker:But then
Speaker:with the creation of the omega-three index,
Speaker:which we'll talk about a little bit later,
Speaker:which is a blood test,
Speaker:I got more interested in the question,
Speaker:what do omega-three blood
Speaker:levels tell us about future
Speaker:risk for disease?
Speaker:That's huge.
Speaker:I've become more in the epidemiology side,
Speaker:studying populations,
Speaker:studying blood levels and
Speaker:predictions than actually
Speaker:giving people fish oil and
Speaker:testing what it does to them.
Speaker:And let's let's talk a
Speaker:little bit about that little like,
Speaker:you know, for the listeners out there,
Speaker:we're talking omega three fatty acids,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:They're coming from
Speaker:predominantly fish and what
Speaker:fish eat right from the
Speaker:algae and things like that.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And so and we know that
Speaker:omega threes are healthy.
Speaker:We know that fish oils are healthy.
Speaker:And for cardiovascular reasons,
Speaker:even to the point where
Speaker:pharma has created SLS
Speaker:versions of these things
Speaker:and moved them in that right.
Speaker:But this is like, I'm hearing,
Speaker:for the years we've known
Speaker:that these things have been
Speaker:pretty good for our health,
Speaker:yet I feel like we still
Speaker:scratched the surface on
Speaker:the awareness of its importance.
Speaker:And so I wanted you to talk
Speaker:a little bit about
Speaker:omega-three and the other omegas and what,
Speaker:cause you're the expert here, right?
Speaker:We want people to understand
Speaker:that there are different omegas and they,
Speaker:they,
Speaker:they're in the body for certain
Speaker:reasons and the ratios are important,
Speaker:but talk to people a little about the,
Speaker:about the mega fatty acids.
Speaker:Cause I think it's really
Speaker:important just to get a baseline here.
Speaker:Yeah, sure.
Speaker:And when we say, and this is very common,
Speaker:this is called omega fatty acids,
Speaker:but there's,
Speaker:Lots of omega fatty acids.
Speaker:Omega-three fatty acids, one family.
Speaker:Omega-six fatty acids is another family.
Speaker:Omega-nine is another family.
Speaker:So when I talk about omegas,
Speaker:I'm talking about primarily
Speaker:omega-three fatty acids.
Speaker:And those are all related to
Speaker:each other chemically.
Speaker:The structure,
Speaker:chemical structure is similar.
Speaker:one part of the molecule,
Speaker:then the other part of the
Speaker:molecule differs.
Speaker:So it's like in a family,
Speaker:you've all got the same last name,
Speaker:but you have different first names.
Speaker:And that's the way it is
Speaker:with the omega-three and the omega-six.
Speaker:So in the omega-three family,
Speaker:there's a plant-based
Speaker:omega-three called alpha-linolenic acid,
Speaker:ALA.
Speaker:Typically,
Speaker:flaxseed oil has got quite a bit of it.
Speaker:Chia seed oil has some,
Speaker:but flaxseed is kind of the classic.
Speaker:Although most Americans get
Speaker:the ALA we get in our diets
Speaker:mostly comes from soybean oil.
Speaker:Because soybean oil,
Speaker:we consume so much of it in
Speaker:so many different forms,
Speaker:but it's got about five to
Speaker:six percent ALA in it.
Speaker:So that's the bulk of where
Speaker:we get it is from that.
Speaker:Most people are not taking flaxseed oil.
Speaker:So that's the plant omega-three.
Speaker:It's a shorter version of
Speaker:the fish oil omega-threes,
Speaker:which are EPA and DHA.
Speaker:ALA is converted to a small
Speaker:extent to those two longer chain,
Speaker:but that happens in the
Speaker:liver and it doesn't happen
Speaker:very efficiently at all.
Speaker:So you really can't raise
Speaker:your blood omega-three
Speaker:levels in any substantial way.
Speaker:You can't raise your omega-three index,
Speaker:EPA and DHA,
Speaker:by taking the plant omega-three.
Speaker:So our primary talk today
Speaker:probably will be about EPA and DHA,
Speaker:which are the,
Speaker:we call them marine or
Speaker:seafood-based omega-threes.
Speaker:Those originate, as you implied,
Speaker:they originate in the ocean.
Speaker:They're actually made by a
Speaker:very single-celled organism
Speaker:called microalgae,
Speaker:sometimes called phytoplankton.
Speaker:And
Speaker:that's where the real factory is,
Speaker:where they turn sunlight
Speaker:into these long chain fatty acids.
Speaker:And then really small filter
Speaker:feeders in the ocean will eat the algae.
Speaker:And then the small fish will
Speaker:eat the filter feeders.
Speaker:And then the big fish eat
Speaker:the little fish and up it goes.
Speaker:Because fish really don't
Speaker:make omega-three any more
Speaker:efficiently than we do.
Speaker:So they have to eat it just like we do.
Speaker:So when we
Speaker:Our best source of
Speaker:omega-three is preformed
Speaker:EPA and DHA from seafood.
Speaker:And so that's, I think,
Speaker:what we're really going to
Speaker:be talking about.
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:I think that's a really important point.
Speaker:And the second point that
Speaker:you made is these are
Speaker:essential fatty acids.
Speaker:In other words,
Speaker:we've got to eat them in
Speaker:order to get them.
Speaker:We don't manufacture them, right?
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:we don't manufacture the parent
Speaker:omega-three ALA.
Speaker:Mm-hmm.
Speaker:we can if we eat ala we can
Speaker:make some and we make
Speaker:probably enough epa and dha
Speaker:from ala to sustain life we
Speaker:don't make enough to give
Speaker:optimal health that's huge
Speaker:because we look at you know
Speaker:epa and dha are not dietary
Speaker:essentials they are uh
Speaker:they're bioactive molecules that are
Speaker:helpful in reducing risk for
Speaker:a lot of disease,
Speaker:but there are certainly
Speaker:human beings can live
Speaker:without eating any EPA, DHA preformed.
Speaker:If you're a vegetarian,
Speaker:if you're a vegan particularly,
Speaker:you're not eating because
Speaker:these just come from, I mean, yeah,
Speaker:there are products where
Speaker:you can get EPA and DHA from algal oil,
Speaker:but that's brand new in the world.
Speaker:typically vegans who eat no
Speaker:animal products at all don't eat any EPA,
Speaker:DHA.
Speaker:And yet they grow up, live, have children,
Speaker:reproduce so they can live.
Speaker:We just think they're at
Speaker:higher risk for a variety
Speaker:of chronic diseases for
Speaker:having low omega-three levels.
Speaker:And they do have low omega-three levels.
Speaker:So EPA and DHA are just, I think,
Speaker:bioactive nutrients that are helpful,
Speaker:but they're not essential.
Speaker:Well, it's important though, because
Speaker:What you're saying,
Speaker:because I love the word optimal, right?
Speaker:When I talk about
Speaker:optimization of nutrients,
Speaker:it's very different than
Speaker:let's call it RDA or the
Speaker:nutrient levels we need not
Speaker:to get a disease associated
Speaker:with the deficiency versus optimization,
Speaker:which is where I think
Speaker:we'll be going today
Speaker:because we have an omega
Speaker:three index testing.
Speaker:We can test the omegas in
Speaker:our body and we can see them.
Speaker:So it's a really clear point
Speaker:to make that we're trying
Speaker:to optimize health now.
Speaker:We're not trying to make a minimal amount,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:And because we need to
Speaker:ingest these at larger
Speaker:levels rather than relying
Speaker:on the systems to make the minimum levels,
Speaker:let's talk a little bit about,
Speaker:because everyone knows Fischl.
Speaker:It's the top three supplement in the world,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:these omega threes that we were using,
Speaker:I've been using them in
Speaker:practice for years.
Speaker:It was actually the first
Speaker:supplement omega three
Speaker:professional grade high
Speaker:quality omega three that's been
Speaker:was one of my first
Speaker:supplements when I started
Speaker:learning about nutrition as
Speaker:a pharmacist because we
Speaker:didn't really learn about
Speaker:this we learned about it in
Speaker:the arachidonic acid
Speaker:cascade and inflammation
Speaker:and things like that and
Speaker:then we learned about how
Speaker:the NSAIDs work but now
Speaker:that was my first
Speaker:supplement in learning
Speaker:about clinical nutrition
Speaker:and it was kind of it's now
Speaker:full circle because I'm
Speaker:using it so much more now
Speaker:from the perspective of
Speaker:If I had to give people
Speaker:certain things to make it
Speaker:really simple for their health,
Speaker:omega-threes at my top of
Speaker:my list because of all of those.
Speaker:Let's talk about the
Speaker:epidemiology and the health reasons.
Speaker:So you've studied this for so long, right?
Speaker:And you've seen these anecdotally,
Speaker:but you've seen them in all the studies.
Speaker:You've written three hundred papers.
Speaker:So what are the benefits
Speaker:here of omega-threes?
Speaker:Well, the benefits are different,
Speaker:different levels.
Speaker:We can certainly say that omega-threes,
Speaker:if you have, again, we're talking EPA,
Speaker:DHA.
Speaker:If you've got optimal levels of them,
Speaker:you're chronically
Speaker:suppressing inflammation.
Speaker:And I think that if you have
Speaker:to point to one thing,
Speaker:that's probably the most
Speaker:important thing they do,
Speaker:is reduce the whole tone of
Speaker:inflammation across the body.
Speaker:Multiple systems are all
Speaker:less inflammatory.
Speaker:And so that has implications
Speaker:on all kinds of diseases,
Speaker:which is why omega-threes
Speaker:seem to play a role in so
Speaker:many different maladies.
Speaker:But other things that they do,
Speaker:they do make the blood
Speaker:thinner in the sense that
Speaker:they will reduce
Speaker:the risk for platelet aggregation,
Speaker:which causes blood clots.
Speaker:And so that's a component of
Speaker:what they're doing.
Speaker:They don't do it to the
Speaker:point where you're
Speaker:increased risk for bleeding.
Speaker:Clinically significant
Speaker:bleeding doesn't happen
Speaker:with taking omega-three.
Speaker:But it's kind of like taking
Speaker:a baby aspirin in a way,
Speaker:because that will make your
Speaker:blood thinner as well.
Speaker:But you won't have some of
Speaker:the GI bleeds that you get
Speaker:from taking aspirin.
Speaker:You also lower triglycerides,
Speaker:something I mentioned earlier.
Speaker:Your blood levels of
Speaker:triglycerides are going to
Speaker:be lower if you've got high omega-threes.
Speaker:And blood pressure has been
Speaker:reduced by omega-threes in
Speaker:randomized trials.
Speaker:So those are kind of
Speaker:biochemical mechanisms by
Speaker:which they work.
Speaker:But at the end of the day,
Speaker:they reduce risk for a
Speaker:variety of diseases,
Speaker:which is where we kind of
Speaker:come up with the
Speaker:The epidemiology is what's
Speaker:showing us how a high
Speaker:omega-three is chronically
Speaker:associated with a lower
Speaker:risk for a variety of
Speaker:chronic disease outcomes.
Speaker:And so that's why we think they're good.
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:and you touched on the really
Speaker:beautiful point here,
Speaker:which is inflammation, right?
Speaker:The root cause of almost all
Speaker:the chronic conditions is this
Speaker:it's kind of like
Speaker:omega-threes are at the top
Speaker:of the level here because
Speaker:it's lowering inflammation
Speaker:on the global level in the body.
Speaker:So all these downstream effects,
Speaker:when we talk about it in a
Speaker:functional perspective,
Speaker:is like cardiovascular
Speaker:system and all the other
Speaker:downstream effects to
Speaker:inflammation or inflaming body,
Speaker:which is high inflammation, becomes
Speaker:lower because we're
Speaker:improving that status in the bloodstream,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Because the mega three index
Speaker:testing in the blood.
Speaker:So I love that you brought
Speaker:that up from the beginning
Speaker:because it's not like we're taking,
Speaker:because a lot of people
Speaker:like think about like pharma.
Speaker:It's like, oh, you take this drug.
Speaker:It does this specific thing, right?
Speaker:It's we're taking omega three as a,
Speaker:as a nutrient, as, as,
Speaker:as something that we're
Speaker:taking in our bodies and
Speaker:it's allowing the body to
Speaker:lower the inflammation in the body.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Which is amazing.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:It's amazing.
Speaker:And it's not really, it's really the,
Speaker:the chronic inflammation we have is,
Speaker:you know, maybe we'll get into this.
Speaker:It's not,
Speaker:not really because of omega-six
Speaker:fatty acids.
Speaker:It's from the lack of omega-three.
Speaker:The body is doing it's when you,
Speaker:get enough omega-threes and
Speaker:it doesn't make any
Speaker:difference about how much
Speaker:omega-six you got.
Speaker:It's not- Well,
Speaker:talk to people about that
Speaker:because I think there's a stigma around,
Speaker:you know, if we're talking nutrition is,
Speaker:you know, the seed oils are bad.
Speaker:These are good.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:I've talked a lot about the
Speaker:ratios in there.
Speaker:And when you talked about
Speaker:the Eskimos and the studies
Speaker:they did on Eskimos,
Speaker:it's because their levels were so high,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:That's why they were in such good health.
Speaker:And so you've seen in your
Speaker:research that it's not
Speaker:really because the way I
Speaker:look at it is like you
Speaker:could have this much omega six,
Speaker:but then you have this much
Speaker:omega three because it's all volume,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Because it's in the blood.
Speaker:So you've seen that it's not
Speaker:really the ratio.
Speaker:It's really just the amount
Speaker:of omega three that makes the difference.
Speaker:Is that what I heard?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:A ratio is you can make a
Speaker:ratio of that out of anything.
Speaker:But I don't I don't like the
Speaker:omega six omega three ratio.
Speaker:OK, because I think it's misleading.
Speaker:Number one,
Speaker:it presumes that omega six
Speaker:fatty acids are all alike.
Speaker:And there's like seven of seven omega.
Speaker:There's really only two
Speaker:fundamental omega sixes that we eat.
Speaker:In our diet,
Speaker:linoleic acid being the by far
Speaker:the predominant and then
Speaker:arachidonic acid will eat some, too.
Speaker:But we don't when we say but in the blood,
Speaker:like there's seven
Speaker:different omega six fatty
Speaker:acids that are made from them.
Speaker:And we don't,
Speaker:we imply when we just pool
Speaker:them all together as omega-six,
Speaker:we apply they all act the same way.
Speaker:All these seven different
Speaker:fatty acids all have the same function.
Speaker:And that's not true.
Speaker:We have seen time and again
Speaker:where a high level of linoleic acid,
Speaker:the primary omega-six,
Speaker:is associated with all
Speaker:kinds of excellent health outcomes,
Speaker:just like a high omega-three.
Speaker:Both omega-three and omega-six are good.
Speaker:linoleic is good, EPA, DHA are good.
Speaker:So this ratio is kind of good versus good.
Speaker:I mean, that doesn't make any sense.
Speaker:So what's the point of that?
Speaker:The idea that omega-six
Speaker:fatty acids are
Speaker:pro-inflammatory just has
Speaker:no basis in evidence.
Speaker:You look at human trials
Speaker:where people are given
Speaker:omega-six or linoleic acid,
Speaker:or you look at
Speaker:epidemiologically where you
Speaker:look at populations,
Speaker:you look at the blood
Speaker:levels of linoleic acid, and you look at
Speaker:inflammatory markers in the blood.
Speaker:There's no relationship.
Speaker:It's not high omega-six,
Speaker:high inflammation.
Speaker:It just isn't there.
Speaker:And studies we've done
Speaker:recently looking at very,
Speaker:very large populations,
Speaker:looking at the blood
Speaker:linoleic acid levels as a
Speaker:predictor of health outcomes.
Speaker:And we find that
Speaker:consistently the people
Speaker:that have the highest
Speaker:linoleic acid levels are
Speaker:the ones that live the longest,
Speaker:have the least
Speaker:cardiovascular disease and
Speaker:the least diabetes.
Speaker:So that doesn't sound like a bad thing.
Speaker:That's a good thing.
Speaker:So linoleic acid is a good player.
Speaker:And this whole campaign
Speaker:against seed oils is just
Speaker:not based in good evidence at all.
Speaker:It's based on the fact that
Speaker:you can call oils processed,
Speaker:and all of a sudden,
Speaker:because it's processed, it's bad.
Speaker:Everything processed is bad,
Speaker:which is stupid.
Speaker:I mean, water's processed.
Speaker:Give me a break.
Speaker:I mean, everything...
Speaker:we eat pretty much is
Speaker:processed to some extent or another.
Speaker:And the idea that omega
Speaker:sixes are bad came out of
Speaker:the the sixties and seventies.
Speaker:And it's just been shown to be not true.
Speaker:So what's what's the
Speaker:I love root cause medicine, right?
Speaker:I'm a functional medicine guy.
Speaker:So in your opinion,
Speaker:as you've seen in your
Speaker:studies and in your field,
Speaker:like this is the thing
Speaker:you've studied for your
Speaker:entire career pretty much, right?
Speaker:So what is the culprit of
Speaker:the inflammatory response then?
Speaker:If it's not the omega-six,
Speaker:then in your experience,
Speaker:because I feel like that's
Speaker:the only way we can speak
Speaker:through these days, in your experience,
Speaker:what would you say is the
Speaker:key marker then for the
Speaker:inflammatory cascade?
Speaker:I'm not sure there's a key marker,
Speaker:but I think probably just over nutrition,
Speaker:being obese, being fat,
Speaker:too much adipose tissue is
Speaker:creating this inflammatory state.
Speaker:And that's a big part of the problem.
Speaker:And why are we fat?
Speaker:Well, you know,
Speaker:how many reasons do you want?
Speaker:We sit around in our butts all day.
Speaker:We don't move nearly as much
Speaker:as we used to.
Speaker:We don't exercise.
Speaker:And we eat lots of very
Speaker:tasty food and we put on weight.
Speaker:And
Speaker:That's the biggest problem
Speaker:that's causing this chronic inflammation.
Speaker:Adipose tissue produces
Speaker:molecules that are pro-inflammatory.
Speaker:I agree with that statement, too,
Speaker:because it's
Speaker:You know, the the visceral adipose tissue,
Speaker:we call it hot fat.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:It's all metabolically active.
Speaker:It's got all the inflammatory markers.
Speaker:We're moving those
Speaker:interleukins and all that good stuff.
Speaker:So it's a really good point
Speaker:to make here is like kind
Speaker:of like we don't need to
Speaker:look at the smoking gun per se,
Speaker:but I'm glad that you put a
Speaker:little a little.
Speaker:scientific evidence,
Speaker:because everything I love
Speaker:to say is also backed by science, right?
Speaker:You've done all these
Speaker:studies and understand like
Speaker:it's not the omega six is
Speaker:similar to the fact that like, you know,
Speaker:we're talking fats here.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And then for how many
Speaker:decades did we say fat was bad for us?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Low fat, low carb, you know,
Speaker:getting into these things
Speaker:and moving into these
Speaker:different directions.
Speaker:And like now we're moving
Speaker:into the direction that
Speaker:some of these fats are
Speaker:really good for us.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And I'm concerned that this
Speaker:whole anti-seed oil thing
Speaker:is going to result in lower
Speaker:intake of linoleic acid,
Speaker:which primarily comes from seed oils,
Speaker:which is going to increase
Speaker:our risk for metabolic disease.
Speaker:Well, I guess the question is,
Speaker:if we get rid of all the fats,
Speaker:because we know that we
Speaker:don't eat enough fish in this country,
Speaker:why it's a big,
Speaker:a big marker for
Speaker:supplementation and why
Speaker:it's top three in the world,
Speaker:or at least in the country.
Speaker:And it's like, well,
Speaker:if we get rid of all the omegas, like,
Speaker:well, what are we eating at that point?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So then it just perpetuates
Speaker:the whole problem.
Speaker:So I'm glad that you brought
Speaker:that to light because it's
Speaker:a really important factor
Speaker:and something that I
Speaker:continuously go down and learn.
Speaker:Well, let's talk about indexing, right?
Speaker:You said this is your cloth
Speaker:here and talk to people
Speaker:about how this came about.
Speaker:And we'll definitely talk
Speaker:about how we can do this because
Speaker:in in my experience
Speaker:clinically and what I've
Speaker:heard and what I've learned
Speaker:in my experience with omega
Speaker:quant and indexing my
Speaker:patients is the number
Speaker:matters right that's right
Speaker:if you don't know the
Speaker:number you can't manage it right
Speaker:But knowing the number and
Speaker:getting it to a certain
Speaker:level has the results that
Speaker:you've been seeing, right?
Speaker:Yeah, right, right.
Speaker:So, yeah,
Speaker:we're talking about the omega-three index,
Speaker:which is a blood test
Speaker:that's typically done with
Speaker:a drop of blood on a piece of paper.
Speaker:The blood's collected at home,
Speaker:mailed to the laboratory,
Speaker:then you get a report back from the lab.
Speaker:We have is omega-quant here in Sioux Falls,
Speaker:South Dakota.
Speaker:uh and omega quant's been
Speaker:around for about thirteen
Speaker:years now we developed the
Speaker:omega-three index test
Speaker:twenty years ago uh in
Speaker:early in two thousand four
Speaker:was our first publication
Speaker:on the omega-three index uh
Speaker:and when I say our I mean I
Speaker:have a colleague in germany
Speaker:dr clemens von schacke and
Speaker:he and I kind of cooked up
Speaker:the idea together and then
Speaker:have been building the case for it
Speaker:ever since,
Speaker:that the omega-three index is a
Speaker:marker of risk.
Speaker:It's not just a marker of
Speaker:how much fish you eat, which it is that,
Speaker:but that's not the point.
Speaker:The point is it is a
Speaker:biologically relevant and
Speaker:actual risk factor.
Speaker:So if you change the levels
Speaker:of the omega-three,
Speaker:you'll change your risk for disease.
Speaker:originally proposed this
Speaker:idea based on some studies
Speaker:that had just been
Speaker:published at that time in
Speaker:the early two thousands,
Speaker:showing that when they look at people,
Speaker:they look across the range
Speaker:of blood omega-three levels,
Speaker:and you compare the people
Speaker:with the highest omega-three levels,
Speaker:the people with the lowest
Speaker:omega-three levels,
Speaker:the people with the highest
Speaker:levels are like,
Speaker:ninety percent less likely
Speaker:to have a sudden cardiac arrest.
Speaker:That was one of the studies
Speaker:that we had learned about.
Speaker:It was a study done at Harvard,
Speaker:a very nice study.
Speaker:And it was that study that
Speaker:prompted us to say doctors
Speaker:ought to have access to this,
Speaker:patients ought to have access to this,
Speaker:a marker of their omega-three level.
Speaker:We named it the omega-three index.
Speaker:It's the red blood cell EPA DHA content.
Speaker:So we're not measuring plasma omega-three.
Speaker:We're measuring omega-three,
Speaker:which is okay in some settings.
Speaker:For some research settings,
Speaker:it's fine to measure plasma omega-three.
Speaker:It correlates quite well
Speaker:with red blood cell omega-three,
Speaker:but red cell is more stable,
Speaker:less noise in it.
Speaker:Kind of like hemoglobin
Speaker:A-one-C is a better
Speaker:long-term marker of
Speaker:diabetes status than is the
Speaker:blood glucose level.
Speaker:So it's the same idea.
Speaker:So the omega-three index, EPA,
Speaker:DHA as a percent of the
Speaker:total fatty acids in a red cell membrane.
Speaker:That percent is roughly
Speaker:ranges from a low of two
Speaker:percent to maybe up to ten,
Speaker:twelve percent.
Speaker:So that's the range.
Speaker:Most Americans are in that
Speaker:five-ish percent area.
Speaker:Vegans are down there around
Speaker:three and a half percent, which is low.
Speaker:People in Japan or people in
Speaker:Korea who eat a lot more
Speaker:omega-three than we do,
Speaker:eat a lot more fish as part
Speaker:of their culture.
Speaker:They're having an
Speaker:omega-three index of seven, eight, nine,
Speaker:ten percent in that area.
Speaker:We think eight percent and
Speaker:above is really kind of the,
Speaker:use the word optimal.
Speaker:We think that's an optimal place to be.
Speaker:And getting up there is not,
Speaker:doesn't take huge amounts
Speaker:of fish or huge amounts of supplements.
Speaker:It's fairly doable.
Speaker:But that's the omega-three index test,
Speaker:and we've been studying it
Speaker:and its relationship with
Speaker:disease outcome for a long time now.
Speaker:And like you said, higher levels are good.
Speaker:Let me repeat what you said, though,
Speaker:is you saw that when you
Speaker:get the omega-three levels
Speaker:at those optimal ranges of
Speaker:where people ate a lot of fish,
Speaker:eight to twelve percent,
Speaker:you're seeing ninety percent
Speaker:decrease in sudden cardiovascular events.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:And that needs to be
Speaker:explained because that's what's called a,
Speaker:it's an observational study
Speaker:and it's a kind of a case control study.
Speaker:We've, and that's for people who,
Speaker:nobody's taking supplements
Speaker:or fish oil supplements in these studies.
Speaker:This is just,
Speaker:some people have high levels
Speaker:because they eat a lot of fish.
Speaker:Some people have low levels
Speaker:because they don't.
Speaker:The people who chronically
Speaker:eat higher amounts of
Speaker:omega-three have higher
Speaker:omega-three index in their blood.
Speaker:And those people are the
Speaker:ones that are lower risk
Speaker:for sudden death.
Speaker:That was the study anyway, back in the,
Speaker:in two thousand two that
Speaker:came out that prompted the
Speaker:development of the omega-three index.
Speaker:At this point,
Speaker:I can't say that people that
Speaker:have the highest
Speaker:omega-threes are ninety
Speaker:percent less likely to have
Speaker:sudden cardiac death now.
Speaker:I think evidence has accumulated.
Speaker:It's maybe thirty or forty percent,
Speaker:but that's huge.
Speaker:It's a nutrient.
Speaker:Dr. Justin Marchegiani Right.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:What I would tell people is
Speaker:I've been on stage and I say,
Speaker:imagine a drug like that
Speaker:could reduce cardiovascular disease,
Speaker:like sudden cardiovascular
Speaker:risk by thirty five percent.
Speaker:Like no drug can say that.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:But omega three has been
Speaker:shown like it's a correlation.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:We're not saying you take omega three.
Speaker:You're going to definitely have this.
Speaker:It's not a cause and effect thing,
Speaker:but it's an overall thing.
Speaker:And I just say the omega-three indexing,
Speaker:the easiest way I've said
Speaker:it to my patients and
Speaker:pharmacists when I teach
Speaker:them to use this in their pharmacies,
Speaker:because it's a point of care test.
Speaker:All we need is a CLIA waiver
Speaker:to do it in the store.
Speaker:You can give it to the patient.
Speaker:They can do it.
Speaker:It's really simple.
Speaker:It's a finger stick, dried blood spot,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And...
Speaker:It's the best test your
Speaker:doctor will never tell you to get, right?
Speaker:It's one of those tests
Speaker:where if I could help someone,
Speaker:because this is what we're talking about,
Speaker:high impact, low cost.
Speaker:If I could help someone at
Speaker:this level of impact,
Speaker:And, you know,
Speaker:an omega three index is less
Speaker:than a hundred dollars.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And we can move it.
Speaker:We can move it in a way
Speaker:that's accessible because there's,
Speaker:and this is why I love
Speaker:bringing this into the pharmacy practice.
Speaker:It's like,
Speaker:what if we could do a one C
Speaker:omega three and a vitamin D on everybody?
Speaker:we would be, we would,
Speaker:and then we optimize the omega-three,
Speaker:we optimize the vitamin D,
Speaker:we look at their metabolic
Speaker:health in three simple ways.
Speaker:This is why I created Rx to
Speaker:Wellness and the Wellness
Speaker:Made Simple stuff that
Speaker:we're doing and launching
Speaker:is because those three
Speaker:simple labs and three simple supplements,
Speaker:because I add magnesium in there,
Speaker:can do a whole lot for health rather than
Speaker:fifteen hundred dollar a
Speaker:month medications and so I
Speaker:I love simple bill and I
Speaker:love getting high impact
Speaker:and that's why I've been I
Speaker:love this test and I love
Speaker:how simple we can do this
Speaker:because you test right you
Speaker:see where your levels are
Speaker:and then you're the we've
Speaker:seen the the labs because
Speaker:we've used them it's like
Speaker:you need to eat this much
Speaker:fish or you need to take
Speaker:this many supplements
Speaker:To get you to the eight to twelve percent.
Speaker:So it's a really simple way
Speaker:to get you high impact,
Speaker:high results and little to no effort.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Yeah, that's right.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:And certainly safe and it's
Speaker:cheap and doesn't interact with any drug.
Speaker:That's a problem.
Speaker:So it's it's a great way to go.
Speaker:Well, in that that's the,
Speaker:I always get the patients
Speaker:that say this or that, like,
Speaker:so what I'm hearing is also like,
Speaker:if someone's on blood thinners,
Speaker:they can still take omega three.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So there's really no
Speaker:contraindication here.
Speaker:Cause it's coming from
Speaker:something that's got high impact,
Speaker:low inflammatory cascade.
Speaker:And we can, we can work the,
Speaker:we can work from this top end downstream,
Speaker:like approach.
Speaker:which again, high impact, low dollar.
Speaker:What better is that, right?
Speaker:How can it get any better than that?
Speaker:Right, exactly, exactly.
Speaker:So how do people,
Speaker:so OmegaQuant is the one
Speaker:I've been using for years.
Speaker:That's the lab that you've co-founded.
Speaker:No, I actually found it by myself.
Speaker:That was not co-founded.
Speaker:Oh, that one.
Speaker:I'm sorry.
Speaker:That one was you.
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:that was totally the founder of... It
Speaker:was co-founded, right.
Speaker:We have patients,
Speaker:but we also... I teach
Speaker:pharmacists wellness.
Speaker:I teach practitioners wellness.
Speaker:in the the allopathic world
Speaker:because this is one of the
Speaker:key members here is like
Speaker:you can use this in your
Speaker:practices primary care in
Speaker:your pharmacy settings so
Speaker:we're going to set up links
Speaker:for practitioners to set up
Speaker:and get this lab into their
Speaker:spaces really easily and we
Speaker:also have patients that can
Speaker:buy this directly if
Speaker:they're wanting to do their own
Speaker:you know, their own test here.
Speaker:It's, it's not complicated.
Speaker:It's not complex, right?
Speaker:No, very easy.
Speaker:So we're thinking easy, simple.
Speaker:Um, and you know, it's,
Speaker:it's a finger stick away.
Speaker:And then also you do, um,
Speaker:we have it for pets too, right?
Speaker:For dogs, for dogs.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So my wife is, I'm coaxing her.
Speaker:She just graduated one of
Speaker:the first classes of
Speaker:holistic pet health coaching.
Speaker:And I said,
Speaker:you got to put a mega three in
Speaker:there for your dog, because guess what?
Speaker:We love our dogs probably
Speaker:more than we love ourselves.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:we want them to live around longer.
Speaker:And so if they're not in their diet either,
Speaker:it's a really useful test.
Speaker:So you can also test your animals too.
Speaker:That's right.
Speaker:And you can also test pregnant women.
Speaker:Pregnant women can test
Speaker:themselves because it's
Speaker:important that they have a
Speaker:high DHA level while
Speaker:they're pregnant to help their baby.
Speaker:And also it's been shown
Speaker:that higher omega-three
Speaker:levels in pregnancy have
Speaker:been shown to reduce risk
Speaker:for preterm birth.
Speaker:And pregnancy extends gestation a few days,
Speaker:which is an important writ large.
Speaker:The longer you can keep the baby inside,
Speaker:the healthier they are, to a point,
Speaker:obviously.
Speaker:So that's a good test.
Speaker:And we also have a milk lactation test.
Speaker:Mom can put a drop of her milk on a card,
Speaker:just like the blood,
Speaker:and we can measure the DHA
Speaker:content of that.
Speaker:advise her whether she needs
Speaker:to take more omega-three or not.
Speaker:That's perfect.
Speaker:These are like beautiful, easy,
Speaker:like we can talk really high level.
Speaker:It reduces inflammation,
Speaker:does this with cardiovascular system.
Speaker:But when we're getting down
Speaker:to like the details, it's like,
Speaker:can we help these specific things, right?
Speaker:Keeping the gestation super important,
Speaker:healthy babies, good brain health.
Speaker:I've used omega-threes in so
Speaker:many different, like we've used it for
Speaker:traumatic brain injuries.
Speaker:Like there's so many
Speaker:different things we can use
Speaker:the omega-threes for that
Speaker:are going to help with that inflammation.
Speaker:But what we're talking about here is very,
Speaker:it's optimization.
Speaker:That's the hugest part that
Speaker:I think is so important
Speaker:here is instead of just
Speaker:recommending a supplementation,
Speaker:we're recommending that
Speaker:we're looking at it
Speaker:optimizing it.
Speaker:I just call it test, treat, test protocol,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:You test, you get the levels, you optimize,
Speaker:and then you retest to see
Speaker:where you're at.
Speaker:Simple, easy, and high impact.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Evidence-based medicine, right?
Speaker:Evidence-based healthcare.
Speaker:Back by science, evidence-based, right?
Speaker:This is evidence-based well care, I think,
Speaker:because we're using this as
Speaker:a proactive approach to
Speaker:modifying someone's health
Speaker:and making it really simple, right?
Speaker:For me,
Speaker:I've gone very complex in my career
Speaker:and in my life about all
Speaker:these high-level protocols
Speaker:and all these things we can be doing.
Speaker:And I've moved back into
Speaker:this simple space because
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:wellness and well care made simple.
Speaker:I put omega-three and
Speaker:indexing at the cornerstone
Speaker:of that because of its high impact,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:That's what we're talking
Speaker:about here is where it's
Speaker:simple and it's got a high
Speaker:level of impact rather than
Speaker:getting in like the eighty twenty rule.
Speaker:If we could do this eighty
Speaker:percent of the time,
Speaker:we don't have to worry
Speaker:about the little stuff.
Speaker:Right, right, right.
Speaker:Handle the big problems first.
Speaker:And that's the big problem.
Speaker:Low omega-three.
Speaker:And in our Westworld brains,
Speaker:you can do this pretty quickly.
Speaker:You can do it pretty easily.
Speaker:Have you,
Speaker:and using quality supplementation, right?
Speaker:We're talking omega-three supplements.
Speaker:versus fish oil.
Speaker:We talk a lot about that, right?
Speaker:So there's some labeling
Speaker:things we want to talk to
Speaker:our patients about the omega-three EPA,
Speaker:DHA values that are in the
Speaker:capsule and getting it from
Speaker:quality sources that are
Speaker:purifying it and moving out
Speaker:all the toxicities because
Speaker:there's a lot of toxicities
Speaker:and things like that, right?
Speaker:Well, I mean, in fish oils,
Speaker:omega-three products, there's very little
Speaker:There's no mercury, for one thing.
Speaker:That's all taken out just as a matter of,
Speaker:because mercury is water
Speaker:soluble and fats are lipid soluble,
Speaker:when they're separating at the first pass,
Speaker:when they're taking the
Speaker:fish they collect and
Speaker:cooking them down and
Speaker:separating the oil from the fish meal,
Speaker:any mercury that's there,
Speaker:and there's very little
Speaker:there because these are
Speaker:typically anchovies or sardines,
Speaker:really small fish.
Speaker:Any minerals that are there
Speaker:are going to go with the water layer,
Speaker:not with the oil layer.
Speaker:So it starts right away.
Speaker:You're not going to have any
Speaker:of the minerals or the
Speaker:metals that people are concerned about.
Speaker:And then just the very
Speaker:process of cleaning up a
Speaker:fish oil to where it's even
Speaker:tolerable taste-wise.
Speaker:There's a lot of steps.
Speaker:Even the simplest or maybe
Speaker:the cheapest fish oils
Speaker:go through quite a few steps to get clean.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:You can get cleaner and
Speaker:cleaner and cleaner and pay
Speaker:more and more and more and more.
Speaker:The higher the concentration of omega-free,
Speaker:typically the cleaner it is in a way.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:They've distilled it down into the parts,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:EPA, DHA.
Speaker:I always gone in this space
Speaker:of like best quality on the
Speaker:planet for the price,
Speaker:like moving those two together.
Speaker:Cause you can go high end spectrum,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:And then you could go really low quality,
Speaker:but then to get to eight to
Speaker:twelve percent,
Speaker:it's a lot more pills a day.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So we get no burden.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So it's kind of like in that middle.
Speaker:Like,
Speaker:where do we get into the middle zone?
Speaker:So test, treat, test,
Speaker:and go on the website.
Speaker:We're going to send the links.
Speaker:So providers, right?
Speaker:If you're listening and you
Speaker:want to put this into your practice,
Speaker:we're going to give you
Speaker:avenues there as well.
Speaker:This is super important because it is,
Speaker:it's very accessible too.
Speaker:This is not something that's difficult to,
Speaker:you don't have to go to a
Speaker:lab quest and get blood draw.
Speaker:Like it's literally a drop of blood,
Speaker:send it out.
Speaker:And your provider can help
Speaker:you manage this.
Speaker:I've used my my friends and colleagues.
Speaker:We didn't even talk about eye health.
Speaker:Like there's so many
Speaker:different ways that we can
Speaker:improve the status.
Speaker:Of the omega three by testing,
Speaker:seeing it and then optimizing it,
Speaker:which is super great.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And it looks like this eight
Speaker:percent target is pretty
Speaker:much optimal for every
Speaker:disease condition we've looked at so far.
Speaker:So you don't have to hit one
Speaker:target for one thing and
Speaker:one target for another thing.
Speaker:And it just get to eight
Speaker:percent and then go worry
Speaker:about something else.
Speaker:That's so it can't get any
Speaker:simpler than that, right?
Speaker:Test,
Speaker:take its supplements or eat this much
Speaker:fish and then retest.
Speaker:If you're at eight percent,
Speaker:stay with where you're at
Speaker:and you're good.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You got to keep doing it.
Speaker:I mean,
Speaker:that's the important thing is once
Speaker:you've reached eight
Speaker:percent and you decide, OK, I'm there,
Speaker:I'm going to stop taking my omega three.
Speaker:Sure.
Speaker:Fall right back.
Speaker:It's a factor, right?
Speaker:It's in there all the time.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:So in your experience, as we're closing up,
Speaker:this has been such a very
Speaker:valuable conversation.
Speaker:So thank you because I think
Speaker:it's just so important to,
Speaker:to reiterate here is like we got,
Speaker:we can get so complex with
Speaker:our health routines and the
Speaker:things we need to do.
Speaker:And this is very simple.
Speaker:This is super simple.
Speaker:So in your experience, this is forty,
Speaker:fifty years of really
Speaker:diving in deep on this one.
Speaker:This isn't like a reiteration.
Speaker:Like we're still talking
Speaker:about the same thing.
Speaker:Omega three.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:If you had to give someone like one.
Speaker:What was if they had to
Speaker:think about one thing they
Speaker:could do right now, what would it be?
Speaker:Well, obviously,
Speaker:test your omega three level.
Speaker:If it's too low,
Speaker:increase your omega three intake.
Speaker:and retest to make sure
Speaker:you're at eight percent.
Speaker:I mean, that's three things.
Speaker:But it's one thing.
Speaker:It's optimizing your omega
Speaker:three index status.
Speaker:Couldn't say it any better than that,
Speaker:because.
Speaker:I've been in nutrition for a
Speaker:long time and teaching
Speaker:wellness is like when you
Speaker:optimize in this again,
Speaker:we've gone all the way to
Speaker:genomics and longevity and
Speaker:all these things people are doing,
Speaker:and it's like
Speaker:You guys, you heard it from the OG here.
Speaker:You heard it from the original guy.
Speaker:He's telling you this is the
Speaker:simplistic way of doing it,
Speaker:but simple doesn't have to be difficult.
Speaker:It can be really impactful.
Speaker:Right, right.
Speaker:Exactly.
Speaker:Genetic tests, you can't really change,
Speaker:but this you can change.
Speaker:And, and, and,
Speaker:and what we can do is what we,
Speaker:we really need to focus on
Speaker:in this day and age and,
Speaker:and making it simple and
Speaker:easy is super important.
Speaker:Well, we're gonna send the links.
Speaker:We're gonna have everybody to,
Speaker:to hopefully the listeners
Speaker:will listen and,
Speaker:and do these simple things because let's,
Speaker:let's, let's talk simple, right?
Speaker:Simple.
Speaker:So easy.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Well, Bill,
Speaker:I really appreciate you coming on today.
Speaker:I really,
Speaker:really think this is going to be
Speaker:an amazing,
Speaker:impactful thing that we can do.
Speaker:Like I said, you know,
Speaker:this is part of our mission
Speaker:to to help make medications unnecessary.
Speaker:And this is a good one step for that.
Speaker:Thank you.
Speaker:Thank you, Josh.
Speaker:Good to be on with you.
Speaker:Appreciate you guys.
Speaker:Until then, everybody stay well.
