Episode 70

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Published on:

24th May 2025

#70: Disrupting the Paradigm: Plant Medicine, Psychedelics, and the Future of Healing with Dr. Randall Evans

Disrupting the Paradigm: Plant Medicine, Psychedelics, and the Future of Healing with Dr. Randall Evans 🧠

In this groundbreaking episode of Beyond The Pills, host Josh Rimany sits down with Dr. Randall Evans, a Harvard-trained physician and intensive care specialist with over 35 years of experience. As a pioneer in the integration of psychedelics into therapeutic and spiritual practices, Dr. Evans is on a mission to challenge and transform the current healthcare paradigm.

From lung transplants to plant medicine, Dr. Evans brings a rare blend of clinical rigor and ancient wisdom to the conversation. We explore the rising role of psychedelics in healing trauma, the importance of safety and education in ceremonial work, and the upcoming launch of Sit Safe—a physician-backed guest screening platform designed to ensure informed, secure participation in plant medicine journeys.

As co-author of the forthcoming Physicians’ Guide to Psychedelics and a featured speaker at Psycon, Dr. Evans shares his vision for a more conscious, patient-empowered future in medicine—one that finally moves beyond the pills.

🔗 Connect with Dr. Evans:

Website: psychedelicphysicians.org

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/dr-evans

🌿 Upcoming Launch:

Stay tuned for the release of Sit Safe, a revolutionary tool for safe, physician-supported access to plant medicine ceremonies.

Transcript
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Welcome back to another

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episode of Beyond the Pills.

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I'm Josh Rimini, pharmacist turned healer.

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And this is the place where

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we explore the frontiers of

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all things healing and transformation,

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purpose and consciousness medicine.

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I'm your host,

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and today's guest is a true

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pioneer at the intersection

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of science and spirit.

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Joining us is Dr. Randall Evans,

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a physician with over

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thirty five years of

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experience in things like

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intensive care medicine and

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who has become a leading

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voice in the responsible

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integration of psychedelics

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into therapeutic and spiritual practice.

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From his postgraduate

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training at Harvard's Beth

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Israel and Brigham and

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Women's Hospital to his

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early work with lung transplant patients,

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Dr. Evans brings a deep

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clinical foundation into

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the realm of plant medicines,

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combining evidence-based

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medicine with ancient healing wisdom,

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my favorite two subjects.

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He's the co-author of the

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forthcoming Physician's

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Guide to Psychedelics.

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Can't wait to talk about that.

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And the visionary behind SitSafe,

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a physician-led screening

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platform that's setting new

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standards for safety and

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integrity in psychedelic work.

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Dr. Evans is on a mission to

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disrupt the current healthcare paradigm.

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That is my mission as well,

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and help other people

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reclaim their healing

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potential from the inside out.

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So let's dive in.

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Welcome, welcome Dr. Randall Evans.

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Thank you, my friend.

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Thank you, Josh.

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What a pleasure and an honor to be here.

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I've been looking forward to this.

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This is going to be fun.

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Me too.

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And I saw you on the calendar.

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I just started getting my

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chills and goosebumps again,

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because we do, we have so much in common,

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right?

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And you spent over three

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decades in critical care.

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But when, I just want to know, like,

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what was the turning point

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that led you into the world

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of psychedelics and plant medicines?

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Yeah, I drank the Kool-Aid, right?

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At some point, we do, right?

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So I grew up in northern New Mexico,

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so really surrounded with a

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lot of indigenous wisdom

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and history and grew up

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running around the canyons

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and near Bandelier and Chaco Canyon,

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these kind of places.

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But at the same time,

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it's the home of the National Lab.

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My father's a high-altitude physicist,

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and so it was always kind

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of a foot in both worlds.

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um so they went off and did

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my undergraduate and did my

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computer engineering went

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to medical school and then

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went to to boston I did all

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my training lung transplant

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all that stuff uh ended up

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in private practice here in

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hilton at south carolina

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and was really living the

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dream by any metric I

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should have been winning at

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the game of life you know I

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had this great practice opportunity I was

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beautiful house, I was making good money,

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healthy child,

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but it just wasn't happening at all.

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It was a dream,

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but it was the wrong kind of dream.

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And so it was probably, I don't know,

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I think,

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twenty years ago that I kind of

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hit my spiritual rock bottom.

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I tried the conventional stuff.

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I lost weight, started working out again,

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went to therapy,

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which was ironic because my

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wife at the time was a therapist.

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uh but then finally just

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kind of put the word out

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the universe and said man I

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need a teacher I need a

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guide you know this is this

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is not working um and

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really wanted to kind of get back to my

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to my other roots.

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And I wasn't sure exactly

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what was going to show up.

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But I ended up finding

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myself in this kind of

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overheated apartment in

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Savannah with this aging

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Bay Area hippie wannabe

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playing his didgeridoo as I

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was having my first

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holotropic breathwork experience.

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which was kind of ironic

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because having been a

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breath doctor breathing

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specialist for all those

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years that was the moment I

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realized I didn't know a

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damn thing about breathing

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you know I knew a lot about

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the container but I didn't

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know anything about the

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breath right the prana and

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you know that experience

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truly was transformative uh

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and life saving and life

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changing you know it really

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was my first unbeknownst to

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me at the time kind of

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natural psychedelic

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experience uh you know

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massive dmt rush from from

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from hyperventilating um

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And while I'll say it didn't

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provide the answers,

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what it did provide was like, ooh,

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I think the answers are there somewhere.

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I don't know what that was,

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but I need to know more.

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The door opened up.

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The veil is there.

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Something is there.

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Yeah, like as Stan Grof said,

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it's the non-ordinary

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states of consciousness, right?

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And I'm glad you started with breath,

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right?

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And how cool is it that the

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lung doctor didn't know

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Jack about breath?

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Like James Nestor's book is

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one of the books I give

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everybody now because it

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changes the way you think

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about something so simple as breath.

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And I'm glad that we started

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there because to tell the listeners here,

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it's not to take a

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psychedelic it's to get to

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that non-ordinary state

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that you couldn't otherwise

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and it's a tool so you have

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your first non-ordinary

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state of consciousness this

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veil opens up and it

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changed your life it's like

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oh I gotta do this right I

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don't know what happened what was next

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So interesting,

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it was my first intentional

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non-ordinary state.

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I had obviously consumed

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probably far more than my

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share of substances growing up,

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but never with intentionality,

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never with purpose.

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And obviously, that was a big lesson.

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But it truly lifted the veil,

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like you said.

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And the thing that just blew

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me away was that it's just

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right there in front of us all the time.

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We don't have to seek.

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We don't have to go run somewhere.

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Enlightenment isn't somewhere over there.

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it's here right and it's

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just that change in

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perception uh so like I

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said I I don't it certainly

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didn't give me the answers

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but it gave me hope uh

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which was huge you know it

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gave me hope and it gave me

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um it really triggered my

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my innate curiosity so from

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there I actually ended up

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training with the keto

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shamans in peru so I spent

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a good time with him and

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went through all the

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initiations and became a

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full mesa carrier and

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actually integrated that

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into my clinical practice a fair amount

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Yep.

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Mine's right there.

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Absolutely.

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I just finished my clinical

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training with Alberto Veloto's program.

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Thank you.

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That's where I did mine.

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That's where I did mine way

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back in the day with Alberto.

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It was beautiful.

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I didn't know that.

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I literally just finished a few weeks ago.

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I've done my thing and I've

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studied in Peru as well.

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This is awesome.

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So doctor becomes shaman, right?

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We go from physical,

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like I'm taking out lungs,

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I'm putting them back in.

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That's a physical thing.

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You go in this mental space,

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this emotional mental space,

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and then now you're into

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the energetics of it all, right?

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Body, mind, spirit.

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Yeah.

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So what was really fascinating,

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and kind of a little bit of

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a diversion here,

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but the breathwork

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experience was really

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profound for me because I

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took a deep dive into it.

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I spent about a year and a half, two years,

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if not more,

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really diving into that

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there was a group of us we

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would meet usually one week

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in a month somewhere around

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the country and we'd read

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friday night saturday

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saturday afternoon sunday

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sunday and really got it so

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what a beautiful

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introduction to a classroom

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for energy and and really

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feeling moving it

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understanding it how it

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informs how it educates and

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so just that experience

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not only was a beautiful

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introduction to that world of energy,

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the non-visible, the non-whatever,

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but it also put me in touch

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with people that normalized

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a lot of my early childhood

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experiences of the non-ordinary,

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if you will.

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You have these things that happen,

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and you can't really tell

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your physicist father because he's like,

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whatever.

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But you run into people

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who've had those

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experiences that really

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normalizes what you had

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maybe thought was a little

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bit odd growing up.

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So it was very foundational for me.

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And then that leading into

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the shamanic world, huge, right?

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Because now you can fully

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embrace the cosmology,

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the energetic healing,

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the energetic body.

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And like I said,

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you get out of the physical

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realm and into the energetic realm.

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And it was beautiful.

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I brought it into my clinical practice.

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I'd been in the OR, opened up sacred space,

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my way to coaching.

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Calling in the four

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directions into the surgical room.

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Absolutely.

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Yeah.

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Oh, my gosh.

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I wish I was a fly on the wall.

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And I would journey with my patients.

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I'd show them the way home

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so they wouldn't get lost

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in the upper world.

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would reset the sympathetic

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nervous system.

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And folks,

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you know how we learn how to do that.

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And so I really brought

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those tools into my

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clinical practice and it was beautiful.

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It was really, really fantastic.

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You're like my new favorite provider now,

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because I'm just starting this path,

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like literally.

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This week,

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we announced that we're

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releasing the retail

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prescription business,

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and we're opening up a full

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functional wellness center with Body,

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Mind, Spirit.

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This office is literally

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where I'm doing my energy work now.

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My mesa's back here.

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I got all my shamanic tools.

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And we get to do this, and...

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I got to ask the question,

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did you see like, cause it's,

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it's still in the analytical for me too,

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is like when you started

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shifting the way you

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practiced with patients,

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like you just treated the body as a whole,

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there's an energetics.

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And if you're,

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if you're affecting the

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energetics and we know this

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now with dispensers work

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and quantum physics and

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quantum health and energy infusion,

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like it's the science is

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catching up to what I would say the woo,

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right?

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But did you directly see

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your patient outcomes get better?

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Well, I did, and for a lot of reasons,

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because the other thing

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about energy is we all have

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the capacity to sense it and work with it,

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but we never stop to think about it,

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because in our culture,

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we don't talk about it.

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How many times like, oh,

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that guy gave me the creeps,

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or you walk in the house and go, wow,

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this really feels good.

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Instead of like, what am I feeling,

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we just go with it.

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So we all have that capacity,

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but we don't talk about it.

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Because if you think about it, like, yeah,

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I'm a pulmonologist,

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but I read the same books

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that every other

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pulmonologist in the country read.

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I don't have anything mysterious.

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And when people would come see me,

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patients would come see me,

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we could just sit and talk,

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and they would leave and go,

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I feel so much better.

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Why do they feel better?

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It was because of that energetic exchange,

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right?

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So once you kind of, oh, yeah, I get this,

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and a little bit more

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formal understanding of it,

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then you can embrace it a

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little bit more and really

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bring it to bear.

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Yes, my outcomes,

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however you define outcomes,

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that's another conversation.

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But you start to see people heal, right?

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That's the goal for me is

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like transformation and

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healing is not really the

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vocabulary we learn in

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allopathic training.

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We learn symptom management.

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We learn diagnose somebody with a problem,

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which I think is beyond the

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problem already because we

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don't label people with

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problems because then they go out.

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So for me, I love that.

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I love that you've played in this realm.

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You've added it to your repertoire.

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It's not like you're here

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over here and you're here over here.

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It's like, no, I'm this whole thing.

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And you're living such a better,

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look at the smiles on your

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face of when you're looking

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at treating patients.

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And I'm just starting this

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journey now of not just starting,

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like actually just living my calling now,

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right?

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We're healers.

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And I meant to do that.

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And we've gone through our

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own healing journey so we

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can help heal others.

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And I love this talk today

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because this is the essence

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of Beyond the Pills podcast

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is ancient wisdom meets

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modern science for true healing.

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So probably the best example I can give,

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like a real world example

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of how it changed my practice.

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I started to and then

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ultimately refused to give

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anybody a diagnosis.

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Because a diagnosis becomes this,

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it's like this energetic

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vortex out there.

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And if you tell somebody you've got,

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they just disempower

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themselves to that diagnosis.

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Oh,

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I can't because I've got so and so and

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so and so.

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Oh, I can't.

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It's like, no,

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let's talk about what you're

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feeling and let's dissect that.

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But I'm not going to give

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you a diagnosis of X

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because then you become a slave to X.

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right and that's an

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energetic thing right so

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they give away their power

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to this higher good and you

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know we can talk forever

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about disrupting the

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medical paradigm but that's

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a big part of it was like I

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just refuse to give people

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a diagnosis I mean

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sometimes yes we would talk

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about it yes you have a

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lung cancer absolutely but

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we would talk about it and

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work in ways it was

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different than the the

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standard allopathic let's

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poke a needle and look and

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say oh here's your

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prognosis like no we're not

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going to go down that

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We're not going to buy into that paradigm.

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Let's look at this another way.

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And the other interesting

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thing is throughout my training,

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medical school, whatnot,

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there's so many things that we overlook,

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right?

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And this is what drives me

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nuts a little bit because

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medicine supposedly is science.

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Well, by definition,

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the scientific method is we

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create a model that

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reflects what we observe in nature.

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And if the model falls apart,

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we have to adapt our model

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and come up with a better model, right?

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That's the entire premise of

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the scientific method.

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But in medicine,

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we don't follow those rules,

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like the placebo effect, right?

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Why is it that thirty

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percent of people get

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better just because they

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think they're going to get better?

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Yet when you bring that up

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in your medical training, they go, well,

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we just ignore them.

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It's like, no, no,

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that should be red flag number one,

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that this model needs to come apart,

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right?

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And then they're just on.

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And the medical field, as you know,

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is littered with those things.

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And so they're inconvenient.

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But instead of changing our model, we just,

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they're inconvenient, so we ignore them.

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So we're now more in love

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and infatuated with the

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model than we are with the reality,

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right?

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So again,

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going into the energetics of it

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and disrupting the narrative,

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like if we're not brave

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enough and don't have the

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courage enough to step back and say,

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listen, the current model doesn't work.

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we got to find a new model.

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Like we're talking about dispensers work,

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you know, Reiki healing, shamanic healing,

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these things, they work, right?

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We see this.

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Like when I would start

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doing this and see

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spontaneous remissions and

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metastatic cancer,

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I'm doing shamanic work.

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Like, I'm sorry,

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but all you have to do is

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see that one time.

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And if you're going to be

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true to yourself and have

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any kind of integrity and honesty,

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you have to go, wait a minute,

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this old model has to go.

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It doesn't work anymore

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because I just witnessed

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something that absolutely should not fit.

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Right.

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So, so this is kind of my, my, my,

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my passion is like,

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wake up to the physicians

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out in the world.

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It's like,

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there are so many other ways and

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so many things that we need

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to talk about.

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So I love it.

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Thank you for letting me go.

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Thank you for letting me go on my little,

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my TEDx talk.

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I was like,

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you beat me to so many

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things because I've been

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teaching pharmacists

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because the placebo effect

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is all about taking a

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medicine that has nothing

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in it and you get better we

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understand what the placebo

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is but in medical school

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and pharmacy school we're

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taught to discard the

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placebo in a double-blinded

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placebo-controlled study

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and when I frame that to

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pharmacists now I say you

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all know what the placebo

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effect is right and they're

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like yeah they're like well

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we're taught to get rid of

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that because we don't want

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to think that it's only

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it's only the drug and I

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was like well why aren't we

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nurturing why thirty

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percent of people get

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better off nothing which is

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why I kind of like

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dispenser's work he wrote a

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book on it right you are

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the placebo and I feel we

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make and manufacture these

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beautiful things in our bodies and

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why that's where the, like the, what, what,

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at what point, like, did we say,

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wait a second here, a,

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get better off nothing.

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So we should explore that.

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Right.

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But like, we haven't until today,

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like now we're getting up to,

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there's more like your mind

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can make you better.

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It can make you sick.

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I love how you brought that

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into not diagnosing patients.

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I was,

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I was doing this the other day and

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someone was talking to me about,

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it might've been a patient

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of mine or a friend.

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And they're like,

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they were, they were, they had cancer.

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It was a thing and they were doing thing.

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And the doctor like says to the patient,

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you have three months to live.

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Just, I hate that.

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And I did the same thing as you just did.

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I'm like,

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that is just a clock to the death

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because now it's imprinted

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in them and they've done this.

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They, people actually actually do this.

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Like,

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What's the reverse of the

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placebo effect is when you

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give someone the placebo,

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they get better.

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And they've done studies on this now too.

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Like the mind is like when

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you reveal to the patient

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that they were on placebo,

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they get sick again.

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They got sick again because

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they didn't believe, right?

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There was this,

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so it's in the belief

Speaker:

system and it's in the energetics that,

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holy crap, if I think and believe,

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I can actually,

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that resonates from a thought,

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which is energy, right?

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Thought is a vibrational frequency.

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And thought energy can move into,

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through the chemical reaction.

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We know this, the stress response system,

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right?

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We know this from fight or flight.

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This is not- More than a

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hundred things go on when

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you think that it's a snake,

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not a garden hose.

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Thank you.

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I love that analogy.

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I love that you're in this work,

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that we're doing this kind of thing.

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So tell me a little bit

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about how you've moved into

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this realm of psychedelics

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and plant medicines as a provider.

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Because this isn't the first

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podcast on psychedelics.

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It's a renaissance.

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People are hearing it.

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They're going to places.

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There's a lot of wrong and

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there's a lot of good going

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on in this world.

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It's the Wild West again.

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and if there's so many good

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tools here for healing and

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as physicians as

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pharmacists as medical

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providers we're I love that

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you're strong in this voice

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you're actually speaking to

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it not saying because

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there's a lot of

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stigmatization right oh

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huge amount huge amount

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yeah still to this day even

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with maps and the fda like

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shutting down the study and I'm like

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Which I'd love to come back

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to that because there's- Let's do that.

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I want to do that later,

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but I want to talk to you

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and your personal journey

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in this because a lot of

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pharmacists and doctors and

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people that I'm talking to

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as providers that are in this realm,

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it's underground.

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There's these things going on.

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going on we're not really

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sure but a lot of people

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are like really afraid to

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speak to it because it can

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ruin someone's career right

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absolutely absolutely but

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I'm not really afraid of

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that right now because you

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know we're I don't look

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good in stripes so we're

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going to do these things in

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ethical ways and do them in

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legal ways in legal places

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which is why you and I

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study in peru and costa

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rica absolutely but I want

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to know how your role how

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it kind of evolved into

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this because this is the

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flame of the future

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So, probably, fifteen years ago, ten,

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twelve, at the time, you know,

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time kind of loses its meaning,

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but some time ago,

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I got called to sit with grandmother,

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sit with ayahuasca.

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So, you know,

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I had always felt incredibly

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comfortable and at home, if you will,

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in the ICU, right?

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the first time I sat with ayahuasca,

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I was like, oh, this is home.

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Like, this is where I need to be.

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Like, the breath work was phenomenal.

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It's like, ah, I think the answers.

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When I sat with her, I was like, okay,

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this is it.

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And so I undertook at that

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moment to really study that medicine,

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that

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plant that whole cosmology

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with the same dedication,

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same series that I did with

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a traditional medicine.

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So I studied, you know,

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how much time I spend in the jungles.

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I have some beautiful teachers.

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That is wonderful.

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Ultimately did this two year

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apprenticeship and

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So that was a massive shift

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for me because that was the

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true connection to the

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ancient wisdom and

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understanding the depth of

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the wisdom that was carried in that.

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You know, there's that stream of healing,

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the stream of wisdom.

Speaker:

And when you put your toe in, you go, oh,

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wow, there is a lot here, right?

Speaker:

There's so much there.

Speaker:

working with with

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grandmother and with

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ayahuasca it was truly life

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transforming like no doubt

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about it so you know I

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studied in temple I cook I

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cook my own medicine I

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serve it I've been doing

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that for for a while um and

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I was able to change my

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traditional work schedule.

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So I would work two weeks on

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and then I'd be off for two weeks.

Speaker:

And then about three years ago,

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it was like, all right, I gotta be done.

Speaker:

So I sold my medical

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practice to do this full time.

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And when I say this,

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I mean psychedelic medicine

Speaker:

and particularly focused on

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reaching out to the health care people,

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you know, physicians, pharmacists,

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you know,

Speaker:

allied health care people for

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lots of reasons.

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Certainly one poignant moment,

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I was in the middle of a

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journey and I was having my

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little conversation with grandma.

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I was like, you know,

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what are we what's standing in the way of

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of bringing this wisdom out.

Speaker:

Because like you said,

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as long as it's in the

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shadows and has a little

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voodoo stink about it,

Speaker:

it's always going to be

Speaker:

kind of pushed to the side.

Speaker:

And she was very clear.

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She's like, you are.

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You guys are the problem.

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I was like, oh, I guess so.

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Because for better or for worse,

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physicians still have that veritas,

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that power.

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If they come out and say, yeah,

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this is good,

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then there are some people believe it.

Speaker:

And they buy into it.

Speaker:

And it becomes more acceptable.

Speaker:

so a big part of it was to

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protect the medicine to

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serve the medicine to get

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this wisdom out to to to

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get physicians and the

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medical community behind it

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number one number two is as

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you well know you know as

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you just said it ninety

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nine percent of people that

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are in this world are in it

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for it's a calling like

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this is not just a quick job

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And they're there.

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And we're not very good at

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taking care of ourselves.

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We're not very good at

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taking care of others in this group.

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And so we have this group of healers,

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physicians,

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pharmacists and whatnot who

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are just getting beat down.

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Right.

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And so we don't really know

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how to take care of each other.

Speaker:

And I just too many of my colleagues,

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I'd see them come in and

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their lights bright and

Speaker:

they're ready to go.

Speaker:

And they just just gradually

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gets dimmed down.

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And then they reach to maybe

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not so great choices on

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trying to reignite that passion, you know,

Speaker:

whether it's.

Speaker:

other substances or other

Speaker:

people or whatever.

Speaker:

And it's like, so it was like, no, I gotta,

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we gotta do something to

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protect this incredible

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resource that we have of these healers,

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you know, because we're not managing,

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we're not caring for each other well.

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So really,

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and I still have the doctor card,

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you know, I can still speak doctor.

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I got,

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you could get invited to the doctor

Speaker:

club houses and things like that.

Speaker:

So it really became my

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mission to focus on the

Speaker:

healthcare world and say, listen,

Speaker:

we need to understand this.

Speaker:

We need to

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break out of this delusion that we're in,

Speaker:

our current medical paradigm.

Speaker:

We need to understand the

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incredible wisdom and

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healing potential of these

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medicines and shake this thing up.

Speaker:

It's time to go in different directions.

Speaker:

That's the journey I've been on.

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I love it.

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It's such great parallel.

Speaker:

I just love these

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conversations that happen

Speaker:

organically in this Zoom

Speaker:

room that we have with this

Speaker:

podcast because it's like

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I'm just sitting in the

Speaker:

back listening to your story going,

Speaker:

This has been my story.

Speaker:

I'm almost crying now

Speaker:

because there's so much...

Speaker:

I feel like the

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transformation is happening

Speaker:

with the planet, the people,

Speaker:

this golden age, these teacher that,

Speaker:

and I believe too,

Speaker:

with ayahuasca with my

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journey in Peru this summer,

Speaker:

it was calling me for years.

Speaker:

And I said, yes, and I did it.

Speaker:

And I had to do it the right way.

Speaker:

I was climbing in the Amazon.

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I was not going to do it

Speaker:

without an OG in front of me.

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Right.

Speaker:

I had four, I had four Shibipo healers.

Speaker:

And I was like, amazed like the,

Speaker:

The thing in the back of my thing here,

Speaker:

it's got the little Shibipo people.

Speaker:

I truly believe that

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Ayahuasca is just a master teacher,

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right?

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A master teacher, right?

Speaker:

And here we are,

Speaker:

like in this cross section

Speaker:

of what I call post-tribal shamanism,

Speaker:

if you want to call it that.

Speaker:

But I'm really framing it up

Speaker:

for myself as like modern

Speaker:

day medicine man.

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Right.

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You go to medical school,

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you have all this great understanding,

Speaker:

like there's nothing wrong

Speaker:

with what we've learned.

Speaker:

However,

Speaker:

it's like I just turned fifty and

Speaker:

it's like, oh, I figured out half of it.

Speaker:

So now I get to figure out

Speaker:

the other half is I can put it together.

Speaker:

It's this and approach that

Speaker:

I've been speaking to myself forever.

Speaker:

And it's this beautiful, like,

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this is what I think you

Speaker:

and I are really believing

Speaker:

is this transformative

Speaker:

space in health care into

Speaker:

this healing modality.

Speaker:

And, you know, it's fascinating.

Speaker:

Like I said,

Speaker:

we could talk about this for days,

Speaker:

but it's important to me, I think,

Speaker:

for us to understand kind

Speaker:

of how we got here because

Speaker:

it's an important story, right?

Speaker:

Like we like to demonize big

Speaker:

pharma and that's not right.

Speaker:

They're doing exactly what

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they're supposed to do.

Speaker:

They're doing exactly what

Speaker:

we asked them to do.

Speaker:

But if you go back,

Speaker:

up until the mid-Nineteen Hundreds,

Speaker:

we as a people, as a species,

Speaker:

died primarily from infection.

Speaker:

Occasionally,

Speaker:

a tree would fall on us and stuff,

Speaker:

but infection was the grim reaper,

Speaker:

and we had nothing.

Speaker:

We had nothing against it

Speaker:

until from plants,

Speaker:

we discovered this thing

Speaker:

called antibiotics, this miracle.

Speaker:

A little mold that happened.

Speaker:

A little mold, actually,

Speaker:

from the plant world.

Speaker:

Imagine that.

Speaker:

um but uh but with that it

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changed everything right

Speaker:

the whole psychology of of

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healing and being healed

Speaker:

because we had this miracle

Speaker:

and it truly was a miracle

Speaker:

this pill that we could we

Speaker:

could take care of the the

Speaker:

grim reaper the thing that

Speaker:

had begun is from day one

Speaker:

and it's like wow

Speaker:

huh, that worked,

Speaker:

let's study a little more

Speaker:

and we'll come up with

Speaker:

another pill and then

Speaker:

another pill and another pill.

Speaker:

And then it shifted the

Speaker:

whole thing because healing used to be,

Speaker:

and what it should be,

Speaker:

is a journey together.

Speaker:

Like you don't,

Speaker:

healing is not something

Speaker:

you do to somebody,

Speaker:

it's you do with somebody, right?

Speaker:

But suddenly we shifted into, and I love,

Speaker:

this is my little analogy,

Speaker:

like we then in medicine

Speaker:

created a really good Old

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Testament style religion, right?

Speaker:

We had this religious icon, the pill,

Speaker:

I'm like one of the high

Speaker:

priests of the religion.

Speaker:

I wear funny clothes.

Speaker:

I've got all these little

Speaker:

weird little things.

Speaker:

I bestow upon you the gifts.

Speaker:

I bestow upon you the magic stuff.

Speaker:

I speak in words that you

Speaker:

really can't understand.

Speaker:

And the funny thing is we've

Speaker:

disempowered people enough

Speaker:

that they have no agency.

Speaker:

So they come to us in our

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little confessionals, the exam room,

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begging for their miracle,

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please cure me.

Speaker:

And we break out the pad and

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write it down.

Speaker:

I still don't trust you

Speaker:

enough to even write in

Speaker:

words that you understand, right?

Speaker:

I have to write a scribble

Speaker:

this and send it to my friend Josh.

Speaker:

Put it in a dig form.

Speaker:

Yeah.

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We had to go to school just

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to learn a new language to

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how to write a prescription.

Speaker:

Two heads of the Newton,

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this going to pulse this.

Speaker:

That's what, right?

Speaker:

And then here's the

Speaker:

beautiful part about it.

Speaker:

So if the patients do it and

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they come back, if they're better,

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Hosanna, Hosanna, miracle, we're good.

Speaker:

If they're not better,

Speaker:

like any good Old Testament religion,

Speaker:

what do we do?

Speaker:

We blame the patient.

Speaker:

You didn't follow the rules, man.

Speaker:

You didn't do it right, right?

Speaker:

But we never told them the rules.

Speaker:

So regardless, we maintain our place,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

It's a very egotistically

Speaker:

satisfying kind of place to be.

Speaker:

I'm the keeper.

Speaker:

I'm St.

Speaker:

Peter.

Speaker:

I get access to the goods, right?

Speaker:

And

Speaker:

But the weird thing is,

Speaker:

so we've disempowered people,

Speaker:

yet we've empowered them to

Speaker:

be incredibly demanding in our society.

Speaker:

Like, I want an MRI.

Speaker:

Oh, OK.

Speaker:

So we have this weird relationship.

Speaker:

We don't actually want to

Speaker:

let you heal yourself,

Speaker:

but we'll let you try to drive the bus.

Speaker:

So it's this very complex relationship.

Speaker:

my point is when you see

Speaker:

that in its totality which

Speaker:

you can only see when

Speaker:

you're not in the game

Speaker:

anymore right like if

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you're in the middle of the

Speaker:

game you don't see it but

Speaker:

when you can step out of it

Speaker:

now you go oh oh this makes

Speaker:

sense and and all you can

Speaker:

do is kind of laugh and

Speaker:

like oh that was kind of

Speaker:

silly let's get back to

Speaker:

where we need to be which

Speaker:

is this is a journey we do

Speaker:

together when we hear like

Speaker:

this is this is not on me I

Speaker:

can't heal anybody

Speaker:

I can support you.

Speaker:

I can guide you.

Speaker:

Maybe I can point some things out,

Speaker:

but it's not up to me to heal you.

Speaker:

This is you, right?

Speaker:

I can provide, I can help and support,

Speaker:

but to get rid of that

Speaker:

whole ego thing of like, oh,

Speaker:

I can take care of this is

Speaker:

so absolutely fundamental.

Speaker:

Like you said,

Speaker:

Western medicine has taken

Speaker:

us to great places.

Speaker:

Absolutely.

Speaker:

But it's not the end all be all, right?

Speaker:

Well, at this a while ago,

Speaker:

I call it the prescription evolution,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

We started with like things

Speaker:

like penicillin and the

Speaker:

plants that came from

Speaker:

nature and all of a sudden they were,

Speaker:

they were healing.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And now,

Speaker:

and then it became this process of

Speaker:

curing instead of healing

Speaker:

where it's this top down approach.

Speaker:

And there's a very big difference.

Speaker:

And I'd love to hear your,

Speaker:

your version of that, uh, because.

Speaker:

We're not, we're in, when you go on this,

Speaker:

I love how you're framing

Speaker:

this up for the patient

Speaker:

because this is the patient,

Speaker:

it's a journey.

Speaker:

It's a journey where it's

Speaker:

kind of like if you're,

Speaker:

if a coach doesn't play the game, right?

Speaker:

The healer doesn't heal, he guides.

Speaker:

That's why I call them guide,

Speaker:

like you're a guide.

Speaker:

We're a guide in the journey.

Speaker:

And when I work with patients now,

Speaker:

when I work with people and

Speaker:

I talk to them about this

Speaker:

and of course I go into the

Speaker:

energetics and the emotional

Speaker:

component and the body component.

Speaker:

We got to work on all of

Speaker:

that at the same time and

Speaker:

in different ways.

Speaker:

But I really start to, one,

Speaker:

you've been talking about this,

Speaker:

empowering patients to be

Speaker:

the advocate for themselves,

Speaker:

not the advocate for pharma

Speaker:

or the advocate for this drug or this

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

we're still one of the only

Speaker:

country that really still

Speaker:

advertises medications.

Speaker:

And we say do no harm.

Speaker:

Yet the side effect profile

Speaker:

on the television screen,

Speaker:

which sickens me,

Speaker:

especially with all the

Speaker:

biologics happening, it's like, oh,

Speaker:

sudden death.

Speaker:

Oh, this, that.

Speaker:

And then and then we have

Speaker:

the stigmatization now of

Speaker:

psychedelics being so bad for you.

Speaker:

And there's no such thing as

Speaker:

an LD-Fifty on a psychedelic.

Speaker:

It's the safest drug out there, actually.

Speaker:

But it has to be done right.

Speaker:

You know, we know this.

Speaker:

And I want to get into that

Speaker:

because of that.

Speaker:

But let's get into that.

Speaker:

Let's get into the sit safe, right?

Speaker:

Yeah, so to your point,

Speaker:

and I love how you said this,

Speaker:

like the side effect profile,

Speaker:

they're not side effects, they're effects,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

We just label them as side

Speaker:

effects if they're not ones

Speaker:

that we necessarily want.

Speaker:

So they're effects.

Speaker:

If I put the substance in,

Speaker:

this could happen, that's an effect.

Speaker:

If it's one we don't like,

Speaker:

we call it a side effect.

Speaker:

Bullshit.

Speaker:

That's just the way to cover it up.

Speaker:

I love it.

Speaker:

It's FDA approved.

Speaker:

It's assumed that it's completely safe.

Speaker:

And it's like, we don't even know.

Speaker:

We don't even know yet.

Speaker:

So it's fun how we can frame

Speaker:

things up and how we can

Speaker:

get this subconscious space.

Speaker:

We don't need to get and

Speaker:

talk about the efforts of

Speaker:

getting underneath all that

Speaker:

to get people to stay in this space.

Speaker:

I call it the pill for the ill place.

Speaker:

But, you know, physicians, pharmacists,

Speaker:

I feel like they have a bigger role here.

Speaker:

Like pharmacy is changing quite a bit.

Speaker:

Like we've exited the retail

Speaker:

side of the business,

Speaker:

not just because the

Speaker:

reimbursement model is broken.

Speaker:

It's upside down.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

but it's not working and

Speaker:

we're bringing in the

Speaker:

things that are complimentary.

Speaker:

And I think I'm sensing,

Speaker:

I don't know if you sense this too,

Speaker:

I feel that this truth is coming out,

Speaker:

that we're moving in this

Speaker:

direction and the collective is forming.

Speaker:

And I think there's this

Speaker:

reactionary piece right now

Speaker:

with pharma and food and like, Oh,

Speaker:

don't change.

Speaker:

Don't change.

Speaker:

Like just jab you full of GLP ones.

Speaker:

You don't have to do anything weight loss.

Speaker:

And just keep eating the

Speaker:

shit you're eating.

Speaker:

Like, it's like,

Speaker:

so it's like they're there.

Speaker:

They put the trigger on it, right?

Speaker:

They put,

Speaker:

they're now actually doubling down.

Speaker:

And at the same time,

Speaker:

there's this little

Speaker:

underbelly thing that's

Speaker:

really starting to pick up.

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And folks like you or me who

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have lived that old life

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and we've gone our own

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journey and we're like,

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let's bring all of it full circle.

Speaker:

This is why I love the

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ancient wisdom side of this

Speaker:

is it's always been there.

Speaker:

The shamans of a thousand

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years have been like,

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we've already done this.

Speaker:

We've been in quantum for a

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thousand years.

Speaker:

You guys just had to,

Speaker:

your analytical had to think about it,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

Think about it, catch up, welcome home,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

We've been waiting for you.

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I literally have been in a

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room with the shamans.

Speaker:

They just laugh at me and they're like,

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we've been waiting for you.

Speaker:

Welcome to the party.

Speaker:

And then they're having fun with it too.

Speaker:

To your point,

Speaker:

the only reason that you and

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I had an opportunity to

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train in the shamanic way

Speaker:

is because in the late

Speaker:

nineteen eighties and whatnot,

Speaker:

the wisdom keepers realized

Speaker:

like Pachamama says, look,

Speaker:

we need more shamans to

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protect the earth.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

That's what allowed that

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wisdom to become available

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to people like who we trade with,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

that because the Pachamama says

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we need more.

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Right.

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So they've been literally waiting for us.

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Right.

Speaker:

So.

Speaker:

So, yeah, they've known this all along.

Speaker:

And so they're like, OK, come on,

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we need your help now.

Speaker:

But yeah.

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um to your point though and

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I love how you brought this

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up about empowering one of

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the beautiful things about

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psychedelics that I really

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really really use them as a

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almost as a crucible to

Speaker:

drive this point home is

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like psychedelic healing is

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a participatory sport

Speaker:

absolutely from day one you

Speaker:

can you know you work with

Speaker:

psychedelics like I I don't

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psychedelics don't cure you

Speaker:

I mean, it's a participatory sport.

Speaker:

That's how they work.

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That's how they're designed.

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That's how the universe made them,

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whatever you want to call it.

Speaker:

So you can't get away with

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not just being the passive recipient,

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which is the model that doesn't work.

Speaker:

We know that.

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We know that.

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We know that.

Speaker:

And so we have to get people

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back into the game.

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We have to undo all the

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stuff that we've been teaching them.

Speaker:

disempowering like no we

Speaker:

were wrong we need you to

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be part of this this is

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your journey we need to

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support you and and

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psychedelics are are so

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beautiful at that because

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that's how they work right

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and and I just so to your

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point about about

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empowering patients and the

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power of psychedelics I

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mean that to me is one of

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the greatest lessons they

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teach us is this is your

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journey of healing yeah I

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can guide I can support but

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it's your journey of healing

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Yeah, I always look at the foundational.

Speaker:

It's funny how we have it in our logo.

Speaker:

It's like this Venn diagram.

Speaker:

There's three circles of the trinity,

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and it's like the shaman or the healer,

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the plant medicines, and...

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the participant, the, the,

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the person in the journey

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all play this role that all

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when comes together.

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So it's not the shaman doing anything,

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but it is because they were

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singing beautiful songs and

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Iki roast me and it was

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powerful and jolted crazy, right?

Speaker:

It crazy.

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You wouldn't believe it.

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We could spend probably

Speaker:

three hours on my experience,

Speaker:

but what I try and you can't,

Speaker:

but you can't verbalize

Speaker:

because there's no words

Speaker:

that actually are,

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are in our vocabulary to

Speaker:

what you can experience.

Speaker:

But what you can tell people

Speaker:

is what did you learn from it, right?

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I came out of my journey, I call it the,

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it was the Super Bowl.

Speaker:

It was like the crescendo up

Speaker:

to the fourth journey.

Speaker:

And I was in,

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and it was a Super Bowl for me.

Speaker:

Like I was shedding things

Speaker:

and I can just say when I came out of it,

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I had such a deep

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appreciation for life and

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for everybody else that's

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been holding on to the

Speaker:

stuff we've held on energetically.

Speaker:

that we just don't see under the skin.

Speaker:

We just don't feel it all.

Speaker:

And it's there.

Speaker:

And I had,

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I had liberated all this stuff

Speaker:

is this dark stuck energies.

Speaker:

And I was just like, but my,

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my realization was like, one of them was,

Speaker:

well,

Speaker:

as much as I just went

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through in this journey right here,

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like I can't sweat the

Speaker:

small stuff anymore.

Speaker:

There's just no freaking way possible.

Speaker:

Like the things I've been

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ruminating on and bitching

Speaker:

about in my life.

Speaker:

I'm like,

Speaker:

there is no possibility that this

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was anywhere less.

Speaker:

Like this was the most

Speaker:

difficult thing I've probably done.

Speaker:

And I've gone through cancer.

Speaker:

Like, and so it's,

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That was that.

Speaker:

And then I also had a deep

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appreciation for just

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people that the trauma and

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the things that we're holding on to.

Speaker:

So this is true healing work.

Speaker:

And this is why I think the

Speaker:

new age modern day medicine

Speaker:

man is this these people us.

Speaker:

us healthcare practitioners

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classically trained moving

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into these other spaces and

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using it as a tool in our

Speaker:

arsenal to complete this out.

Speaker:

I want to talk a little bit about SitSafe.

Speaker:

Sure.

Speaker:

Yeah, I'd love to.

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Thank you.

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What inspired you and how

Speaker:

does it work to protect both guests,

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people, and facilitators?

Speaker:

What's the essence of it?

Speaker:

So the essence on the surface,

Speaker:

superficially,

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it's a screening platform

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to ensure that there's

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going to be no untoward

Speaker:

interactions between

Speaker:

medications and plant medicines.

Speaker:

But in reality,

Speaker:

the vision that brought it forth is,

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you know, I consider myself,

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I serve the medicine,

Speaker:

which is different than pouring it.

Speaker:

You know, I serve the medicine, right?

Speaker:

So part of it is, you know, safety,

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protecting the medicine.

Speaker:

I was very honored to be

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invited to participate in

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this recent seminar,

Speaker:

like the psychedelic safety seminar.

Speaker:

And so it was a very

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interesting conversation.

Speaker:

Like,

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how do you define psychedelic safety?

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And for me,

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a big part of safety is

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protecting not only the guests,

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but also the medicine, the plants,

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every part of it needs to be protected.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

So my Shipibo friends from back in the day,

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they didn't have to have to

Speaker:

worry about the Western

Speaker:

mindset and medications

Speaker:

because that wasn't it.

Speaker:

It didn't infiltrate them.

Speaker:

Yeah, they were protected.

Speaker:

So having to worry about

Speaker:

interactions between SSRIs

Speaker:

and ayahuasca was not a

Speaker:

part of their world, right?

Speaker:

But it is now, right?

Speaker:

So when people show up, if,

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and these are folks, you know, so SitSafe,

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the original platform is

Speaker:

designed really for the small,

Speaker:

medium size kind of

Speaker:

facilitator facility that

Speaker:

hasn't had access to a lot

Speaker:

in the way of technology,

Speaker:

certainly medical support

Speaker:

or advice and whatnot.

Speaker:

So I can,

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we can put this into their hands

Speaker:

to preserve their way of life.

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to preserve their ability to

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practice their medicine.

Speaker:

So my little Shipibo buddies

Speaker:

who rarely have internet access,

Speaker:

but now they can actually,

Speaker:

when guests come in,

Speaker:

it's an interactive platform.

Speaker:

The guest gets sent an email.

Speaker:

They get linked to my deal.

Speaker:

I walk them through a little

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questionnaire where I get

Speaker:

them to give me their

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medications that they're taking.

Speaker:

I can do some real-time

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interaction checking,

Speaker:

some very baseline medical

Speaker:

issue screening with some

Speaker:

suggestions on what may or

Speaker:

may not be attended to.

Speaker:

And after that little process,

Speaker:

both the facilitator and

Speaker:

the guest get a report that

Speaker:

gets generated that says, hey,

Speaker:

here's a summary of what you shared.

Speaker:

Here's some potential red

Speaker:

flags that may need to be

Speaker:

some attention to.

Speaker:

Here's maybe some yellow flags.

Speaker:

And here's some ways that

Speaker:

you could think about

Speaker:

working your way around that.

Speaker:

So it's a way to protect the

Speaker:

guest so they don't have an

Speaker:

untoward outcome,

Speaker:

to protect the facilitator

Speaker:

so the guests don't have an

Speaker:

untoward outcome, to protect everybody.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

I love that you said protect the medicine,

Speaker:

too, and the continuity.

Speaker:

That's the main thing, right?

Speaker:

Because, you know...

Speaker:

this is one of my biggest

Speaker:

fears as pharma takes over

Speaker:

this stuff and goes into

Speaker:

the pill for the ill

Speaker:

because people expect that

Speaker:

the psych again it's the

Speaker:

journey that we take it's

Speaker:

not in the tool one of the

Speaker:

tools is you know these are

Speaker:

the teachers right they're

Speaker:

not and so a lot of I think

Speaker:

a lot of I'm so glad you're

Speaker:

bringing this up and I think we share a

Speaker:

A similar colleague, the spirit pharmacist,

Speaker:

who's a friend of mine, Ben Malcolm,

Speaker:

who's been doing this work

Speaker:

for a long time.

Speaker:

This is why I feel like

Speaker:

there's a big role.

Speaker:

Because what you're talking

Speaker:

about is the preparation phase, right?

Speaker:

Is getting people prepared,

Speaker:

not just with a dieta and a diet,

Speaker:

like all these things.

Speaker:

And I literally,

Speaker:

I love the synchronicities.

Speaker:

I had this conversation with

Speaker:

someone yesterday, right?

Speaker:

Where they were telling me

Speaker:

about someone who committed

Speaker:

suicide after a psychedelic

Speaker:

experience with psilocybin

Speaker:

because they were bipolar

Speaker:

and they had taken their

Speaker:

medication right after the journey.

Speaker:

And he, he,

Speaker:

he committed suicide in front

Speaker:

of his roommates.

Speaker:

And it wasn't the fact that he was bipolar,

Speaker:

but it was this whole complex thing that,

Speaker:

and it wasn't guided.

Speaker:

There was just all the

Speaker:

things that could have gone wrong did.

Speaker:

And this is why I think

Speaker:

you're really compelled

Speaker:

because as a physician,

Speaker:

as a pharmacist that have

Speaker:

gone in this direction and

Speaker:

gone into this shamanic healing.

Speaker:

thing like energy and

Speaker:

psychedelic is there is a

Speaker:

science to this now with

Speaker:

our modern day stuff that

Speaker:

we're dealing with and the

Speaker:

medications we take and the

Speaker:

things that are going on with us.

Speaker:

So I'm really,

Speaker:

really glad that you were

Speaker:

inspired to not only create this,

Speaker:

but to help facilitators, help guests,

Speaker:

help the medicine because

Speaker:

you're honoring all of it.

Speaker:

To me,

Speaker:

that just feels so I'm blessed to

Speaker:

have heard that.

Speaker:

Yeah, and thank you.

Speaker:

And it really has been a

Speaker:

passion for me because it's

Speaker:

so multilevel.

Speaker:

Like, you know,

Speaker:

the thing that just is so

Speaker:

alive for me is if there's a bad outcome,

Speaker:

it's not going to be some

Speaker:

wayward lost soul who's

Speaker:

been wandering the jungles

Speaker:

and has kind of been

Speaker:

disconnected and nobody

Speaker:

really hears about it.

Speaker:

It's going to be Marge from Cincinnati,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

And it will have been

Speaker:

completely preventable,

Speaker:

completely preventable.

Speaker:

And that's the part that just –

Speaker:

And so, yes, I'm worried about Marge,

Speaker:

absolutely.

Speaker:

But I'm also worried about

Speaker:

the facilitator.

Speaker:

I'm worried about the facility.

Speaker:

I'm worried about our access

Speaker:

to the medicine, right?

Speaker:

Because this is those little things.

Speaker:

That's when you get the pushback.

Speaker:

That's when you go, see, it doesn't.

Speaker:

And we're just emerging from this sixty,

Speaker:

seventy year dark ages

Speaker:

where we truly do have this wisdom gap.

Speaker:

in the psychedelic world and

Speaker:

and we need to like you

Speaker:

said we need to protect

Speaker:

this we cannot afford to

Speaker:

lose access to this wisdom

Speaker:

again we absolutely as a

Speaker:

people as a humanity as a

Speaker:

species as a planet we need

Speaker:

this and so we have to do

Speaker:

everything in our power to

Speaker:

protect that protect it

Speaker:

from big pharma protect it

Speaker:

from whomever has other you

Speaker:

know priorities for it and so to me

Speaker:

SitSafe was my way to serve the medicine.

Speaker:

I could bring my experience in medicine,

Speaker:

my experience in the intensive care unit,

Speaker:

my experience as a facilitator,

Speaker:

as one who's been serving

Speaker:

medicine for so long and say, look,

Speaker:

this is how I can serve the

Speaker:

medicine and protect all of

Speaker:

it because it is so sacred

Speaker:

and so important.

Speaker:

And, you know,

Speaker:

that looks different for different people,

Speaker:

but that's fine.

Speaker:

We need to do it on all levels.

Speaker:

And so to me,

Speaker:

this was truly my passion project.

Speaker:

And that...

Speaker:

You ask,

Speaker:

how did I get into this and what

Speaker:

started it?

Speaker:

Well, honestly, the other part was,

Speaker:

Attacking the stigma that's

Speaker:

associated with it, right?

Speaker:

So like I decided I'm not a

Speaker:

social media guy.

Speaker:

That's not what I do.

Speaker:

But my business partner was like, Randy,

Speaker:

we got to do this thing.

Speaker:

So we created this LinkedIn profile,

Speaker:

Psychedelic MB, right?

Speaker:

And I was literally in tears

Speaker:

the other day speaking to my wife.

Speaker:

I was like, you know,

Speaker:

I had no idea what to expect from this.

Speaker:

But just doing that, and we just published,

Speaker:

we just put information out there.

Speaker:

We just educate, right?

Speaker:

There's no agenda.

Speaker:

We're not selling.

Speaker:

We're just educating.

Speaker:

But we've ultimately created

Speaker:

this container, right?

Speaker:

This safe space container,

Speaker:

just like when I hold a ceremony.

Speaker:

And because of that,

Speaker:

I've met so many amazing, like you,

Speaker:

amazing individuals that

Speaker:

never would have- The tribe

Speaker:

starts to form and they

Speaker:

come and all of us- And

Speaker:

they share their stories

Speaker:

that they would never,

Speaker:

that they crawl out of the dark.

Speaker:

And I've heard the most

Speaker:

amazing stories that just

Speaker:

give me goosebumps about

Speaker:

the courage these people

Speaker:

have had of how they face

Speaker:

their demons and found

Speaker:

their own healing through psychedelics.

Speaker:

And

Speaker:

And it's just been such an amazing thing.

Speaker:

And so feeling that and then

Speaker:

with a sit safe, it's really all about

Speaker:

protecting the medicine,

Speaker:

trying to educate people,

Speaker:

trying to wake folks up and say, listen,

Speaker:

there are better ways to do this.

Speaker:

And we need to step forward.

Speaker:

And we need to follow people

Speaker:

like you that say, oh yeah,

Speaker:

I was in this world,

Speaker:

but now I understand

Speaker:

there's another better way to do this.

Speaker:

And then we,

Speaker:

because we need to be together.

Speaker:

Like one, we're just a voice.

Speaker:

The community,

Speaker:

now we've got some momentum behind it.

Speaker:

So-

Speaker:

I believe that wholeheartedly,

Speaker:

and thank you for bringing

Speaker:

it up in your way,

Speaker:

because I just say the word

Speaker:

collective just keeps coming to me.

Speaker:

It's the collective thing.

Speaker:

The singularity is part of the whole,

Speaker:

and we have this role to play now,

Speaker:

this new modern day twist to it all,

Speaker:

this post-tribal way,

Speaker:

and having a tribe has

Speaker:

always been something

Speaker:

that's been... I always

Speaker:

call my groups tribes, because...

Speaker:

for whatever reason, that's just how I,

Speaker:

what I love that word,

Speaker:

but having these groups,

Speaker:

having these space to hold that container,

Speaker:

hold that sacred space.

Speaker:

And, and you know, this too, and when it's,

Speaker:

it's not even the journey

Speaker:

of the psychedelics,

Speaker:

it's when we decide then

Speaker:

the medicine starts working

Speaker:

and then people don't,

Speaker:

and you only do this through experience,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

You can't do it through the book.

Speaker:

You can't do it through the, the, the, but

Speaker:

you lead you to those things.

Speaker:

You did talk to,

Speaker:

I want to talk to you about

Speaker:

this because this is

Speaker:

usually the first thing

Speaker:

that comes up for people

Speaker:

that are listening that

Speaker:

have maybe read Michael

Speaker:

Poland's book and they're

Speaker:

thinking about it and stuff like that.

Speaker:

Like what,

Speaker:

what does someone in this day

Speaker:

and age in the present moment, like how,

Speaker:

how do they navigate this wild, wild West?

Speaker:

If they think like, cause most of the time,

Speaker:

the way I look at it and

Speaker:

the way I still believe it

Speaker:

all is like when you ask

Speaker:

and you're in the right residence,

Speaker:

it's like when the,

Speaker:

when the student is ready,

Speaker:

the teacher appears.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

So I feel that, but the, the,

Speaker:

the modern day person is like, well,

Speaker:

if I want to go do

Speaker:

psilocybin journey or ayahuasca,

Speaker:

but I want to do it the right way.

Speaker:

Like you guys are saying, I get that.

Speaker:

but I don't know where to start, right?

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

It's a huge issue.

Speaker:

And thank you for bringing

Speaker:

that up because right along with sit safe,

Speaker:

the other thing that we're

Speaker:

working on and just about

Speaker:

to roll out is some kind of

Speaker:

objective safety guidelines,

Speaker:

like for facilitators to say, yes,

Speaker:

we are doing the right thing.

Speaker:

Here's our,

Speaker:

all the way from physical plant

Speaker:

to who sources your medicine to

Speaker:

How confident are you in the purity of it?

Speaker:

Who serves your medicine?

Speaker:

What kind of screening you do?

Speaker:

What kind of aftercare do you have?

Speaker:

Like the whole thing, right?

Speaker:

But we have to get this out of the shadows,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

And so we're working and

Speaker:

teaming up with some other

Speaker:

organizations to create

Speaker:

this like seal of approval,

Speaker:

safety seal of approval, whatever.

Speaker:

I don't know the right term for it,

Speaker:

but it's basically as a guide.

Speaker:

So people who are, you know, right now,

Speaker:

the number one reason

Speaker:

people choose what retreat

Speaker:

they choose in Costa Rica,

Speaker:

the number one thing,

Speaker:

what weekend it's available.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

There's eighty people in

Speaker:

facilities serving medicine down there.

Speaker:

Every one of them is different,

Speaker:

has their own approach to a good, bad,

Speaker:

whatever.

Speaker:

But I give the number one

Speaker:

reason I'm making a choice

Speaker:

is because that's the

Speaker:

weekend I have available.

Speaker:

That's probably not the best

Speaker:

way to make a choice about

Speaker:

starting this massive undertaking.

Speaker:

So we're really trying to change that.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

To put some objectivity to it.

Speaker:

The other thing is part of

Speaker:

the psychedelic MD is we're

Speaker:

creating a core group of.

Speaker:

healthcare-related physician

Speaker:

who are psychedelic physicians,

Speaker:

if you will.

Speaker:

They have strong clinical backgrounds,

Speaker:

strong educational background,

Speaker:

have a personal experience with it,

Speaker:

can speak to it in a

Speaker:

specialty and studied it as a resource,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

Because like my wife is in

Speaker:

primary care and

Speaker:

If she has a patient who says,

Speaker:

I really want to talk about

Speaker:

psilocybin therapy, right?

Speaker:

There's no really good way,

Speaker:

place for her to call and go, hey, listen,

Speaker:

go talk to these guys.

Speaker:

Like, you know,

Speaker:

there's some organizations

Speaker:

out there that are trying

Speaker:

to do that and support that,

Speaker:

really want to work with them,

Speaker:

but we don't have that resource.

Speaker:

And so this is the other

Speaker:

reason for that book,

Speaker:

Psychedelics for Physicians, right?

Speaker:

Because we have to get ahead

Speaker:

of our patients.

Speaker:

Like right now,

Speaker:

our patients know way more

Speaker:

than most doctors do.

Speaker:

And so when they come on to talk about it,

Speaker:

Silas,

Speaker:

they don't want a recitation of the

Speaker:

nineteen sixty nine

Speaker:

controlled substance act.

Speaker:

They want to have a conversation.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And just because some some

Speaker:

individual has a great

Speaker:

blowout experience and now

Speaker:

has an awesome Instagram feed,

Speaker:

that should not be the

Speaker:

reason that they become the

Speaker:

source of information for

Speaker:

our youth and for our kids

Speaker:

and for our peers.

Speaker:

Like I want it.

Speaker:

We need to reclaim our

Speaker:

leadership role in this.

Speaker:

As someone who can provide

Speaker:

advice and understanding

Speaker:

and guidance and that.

Speaker:

And we've lost that or we're

Speaker:

at risk of losing that position.

Speaker:

So to your point,

Speaker:

how do people get into the safe?

Speaker:

Like, who do you call?

Speaker:

And there's no good answer to that.

Speaker:

And that's one of the big

Speaker:

things that we're trying to

Speaker:

step in and fill that so that you can go,

Speaker:

okay, listen,

Speaker:

I really am feeling the call for this.

Speaker:

I need more information.

Speaker:

Like, so, you know,

Speaker:

we're setting up where we

Speaker:

can set up just a

Speaker:

psychedelic consultation.

Speaker:

People can call like, well, let's chat.

Speaker:

Let's chat.

Speaker:

I'm not practicing medicine.

Speaker:

I'm just like,

Speaker:

let me inform and educate you.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And give you some guidelines.

Speaker:

Here's how you start.

Speaker:

I've got this webinar I did

Speaker:

on how do you do

Speaker:

psychedelic safely in healthcare?

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

how do you navigate those spaces?

Speaker:

all to your point like if

Speaker:

we're going to do this

Speaker:

right we need to also help

Speaker:

people get into it

Speaker:

correctly and safely in the

Speaker:

right way so they have

Speaker:

access to it so that's not

Speaker:

an underground thing right

Speaker:

like it has to be

Speaker:

all-encompassing we can't

Speaker:

just tout the the the power

Speaker:

and the beauty of it

Speaker:

without also providing the

Speaker:

framework and the support

Speaker:

and the infrastructure so

Speaker:

people have access to it in a safe

Speaker:

supported manner as you know

Speaker:

that's a huge part of this

Speaker:

world and so those are

Speaker:

other holes that we're

Speaker:

trying to fill like how

Speaker:

like because my big

Speaker:

question is so if the

Speaker:

common guy down the street

Speaker:

wants to know how to do

Speaker:

this who does he talk to who does he call

Speaker:

And the chances are it

Speaker:

probably he doesn't know either.

Speaker:

And that's that's that's a

Speaker:

barrier to access to me.

Speaker:

And so anything we can do to

Speaker:

break down those barriers

Speaker:

to access is absolutely

Speaker:

fundamental because we are

Speaker:

going to change the world.

Speaker:

We are going to change the paradigm.

Speaker:

We can't it's it's going to happen.

Speaker:

It's already happened.

Speaker:

We just like,

Speaker:

it's happening in this direction.

Speaker:

And I love where you're

Speaker:

going with this because it, it,

Speaker:

it almost feels like, okay,

Speaker:

like the old system we're, we're in the,

Speaker:

we're in the chrysalis, right?

Speaker:

We're in the middle of this

Speaker:

transformation where we're,

Speaker:

we're not quite the

Speaker:

caterpillar in the olden

Speaker:

days where we were just

Speaker:

doing this and we're not

Speaker:

quite into the future of

Speaker:

quantum healing right we're

Speaker:

like in the middle we're in

Speaker:

the chrysalis and I always

Speaker:

tell people like that's my

Speaker:

own personal journey and

Speaker:

where I've come out of into

Speaker:

this space of you know

Speaker:

pharmacists turn shaman

Speaker:

like like that's modern day

Speaker:

medicine man for me I love it but

Speaker:

we also play this new role

Speaker:

in what we're in the little middle.

Speaker:

Like this is the middle,

Speaker:

which is great because we

Speaker:

know there's another side and it's coming,

Speaker:

it's here.

Speaker:

And I just say like, what, you know,

Speaker:

a lot of the times,

Speaker:

what happens in the

Speaker:

chrysalis when the

Speaker:

caterpillar becomes a

Speaker:

completely different thing

Speaker:

that's transformed and beautiful?

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

there's a bunch of love and energy in

Speaker:

that, but besides that,

Speaker:

it's a bunch of fricking

Speaker:

goo and we don't really know.

Speaker:

So we're in the,

Speaker:

we're in the goo stage

Speaker:

right now with our medicine,

Speaker:

because we're blending

Speaker:

these two things in putting

Speaker:

that modern twist into it.

Speaker:

And I'm excited because I

Speaker:

feel like this is the,

Speaker:

this is the golden age.

Speaker:

I know a lot of people are

Speaker:

like down and out about, but we need

Speaker:

the entropy and the chaos

Speaker:

for things to change.

Speaker:

Absolutely.

Speaker:

The beauty of the mess, like I say,

Speaker:

like I talk to people and I go,

Speaker:

the glory part of the mess,

Speaker:

that's the beauty.

Speaker:

Because that's where creativity comes from,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

If it wasn't a mess,

Speaker:

There would be no options.

Speaker:

Like you have to create the

Speaker:

mess to find a new way.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And it's happening.

Speaker:

We're in the mess.

Speaker:

It's our job to wake up and go, oh, OK,

Speaker:

yeah, we're in the mess.

Speaker:

Let's let's do what we can

Speaker:

to to find our way through the goo.

Speaker:

I love that analogy and

Speaker:

clear off our goggles.

Speaker:

We can actually see forward.

Speaker:

But so anything that we can do,

Speaker:

we have to do, I think,

Speaker:

to to to to to shepherd this new agent,

Speaker:

because like you said, it's happening.

Speaker:

It's our job.

Speaker:

I think it's our

Speaker:

responsibility of our generation.

Speaker:

It truly is, I think,

Speaker:

our generation's

Speaker:

responsibility to guide this forward,

Speaker:

to shepherd this forward.

Speaker:

That's our responsibility.

Speaker:

And if we don't do that, well,

Speaker:

we're going to do that

Speaker:

because there is no not going to.

Speaker:

That's what we're doing.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Well, there's no option, I don't believe.

Speaker:

I don't see the quantum

Speaker:

reality of the option that's not there,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

This is the way.

Speaker:

And you're right.

Speaker:

The shamans of old,

Speaker:

the plants have reemerged.

Speaker:

They've

Speaker:

They took a little gap there

Speaker:

with the Nixon and all the other stuff,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

And now we're moving into

Speaker:

this realm of healing and beauty in it.

Speaker:

And who I would have never

Speaker:

thought in my journey on this planet,

Speaker:

in this incarnation,

Speaker:

that I would have ever

Speaker:

thought we would be here today.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Like, it's amazing.

Speaker:

It's beautiful.

Speaker:

And I wake up on the good

Speaker:

side of it most days knowing, like,

Speaker:

I'm so like encouraged and empowered to,

Speaker:

you know, like, like,

Speaker:

cause I know a lot of the physics,

Speaker:

we've had a lot of podcasts on this,

Speaker:

like we're physicians and

Speaker:

pharmacists and healthcare workers.

Speaker:

They're burnt out.

Speaker:

They're stressed out.

Speaker:

And a lot of it is because

Speaker:

they're not fulfilling their purpose.

Speaker:

They're not fulfilling who

Speaker:

they wanted to be.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And so finding your purpose is like, well,

Speaker:

I got into this cause I

Speaker:

wanted to heal people.

Speaker:

That's really how I got in it.

Speaker:

Cause I,

Speaker:

I went through my own journey with

Speaker:

cancer.

Speaker:

answer at sixteen.

Speaker:

I survived leukemia.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

I said, I'm going to fix more people.

Speaker:

But then over the years,

Speaker:

figure out that case.

Speaker:

It was my mindset.

Speaker:

It was the all the other things.

Speaker:

But a lot of the missions

Speaker:

and things have this thing going,

Speaker:

and now we have these

Speaker:

opportunities to retrain

Speaker:

ourselves in a good way

Speaker:

that can literally

Speaker:

transform and heal people.

Speaker:

Josh, I'm a little studied on your video.

Speaker:

I'm going to switch my

Speaker:

internet just to make sure

Speaker:

it's not on my end if that's okay.

Speaker:

That's why I feel like we went to school.

Speaker:

It's probably mine.

Speaker:

I see my little button here.

Speaker:

All right, cool.

Speaker:

And I don't know why because

Speaker:

I'm hardwired in anyway.

Speaker:

Cool.

Speaker:

Well, this is...

Speaker:

So you're writing The

Speaker:

Physician's Guide to Psychedelics.

Speaker:

You've moved into this realm

Speaker:

called Sit Safe,

Speaker:

which is super important.

Speaker:

I can't wait to dive into that.

Speaker:

And we've talked about in

Speaker:

the shamanic world,

Speaker:

we also talk about integrity and ethics,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

And moving this in the right way.

Speaker:

So we've talked about that.

Speaker:

Is there...

Speaker:

What do you think is the, hmm?

Speaker:

Because I don't think it's

Speaker:

for everybody either, right?

Speaker:

There's some, like.

Speaker:

No.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So I don't mean to cut you off,

Speaker:

but that's an incredibly important point.

Speaker:

Certain medicines are good

Speaker:

for certain people.

Speaker:

Not every medicine is right

Speaker:

for every person.

Speaker:

Not every person is right

Speaker:

for every medicine.

Speaker:

And this is one of the

Speaker:

things that really does scare me.

Speaker:

And we're already starting

Speaker:

to see this is the buttonhole, right?

Speaker:

Oh, MDMA is for PTSD.

Speaker:

Oh, evil gain is for this.

Speaker:

It's like, no, that's not how this,

Speaker:

let's not go into those labels,

Speaker:

those diagnoses, right?

Speaker:

And not everybody needs a medicine.

Speaker:

Not everybody's broken.

Speaker:

In fact, nobody's broken, right?

Speaker:

And so this idea that somehow, oh,

Speaker:

this is for everybody.

Speaker:

We need to make access for everybody.

Speaker:

It's like, no, no, no, no.

Speaker:

We need to continue to have

Speaker:

our discernment

Speaker:

and our wisdom and our

Speaker:

willingness to

Speaker:

understanding to sit and

Speaker:

actually engage with people

Speaker:

and let's understand where we are.

Speaker:

And then we, like you said,

Speaker:

we have so many different

Speaker:

arrows in our quiver to

Speaker:

help folks who are having a

Speaker:

period of dis-ease, right?

Speaker:

Dis-ease.

Speaker:

So whether it's meditation,

Speaker:

whether it's plant medicine,

Speaker:

whether it's like there's,

Speaker:

we have so many options and

Speaker:

I think it's so imperative

Speaker:

that we remember that it's

Speaker:

not all or nothing.

Speaker:

Like we have amazing tools in our toolkit.

Speaker:

to help folks, guide folks,

Speaker:

support folks through their transition,

Speaker:

whatever that may look like.

Speaker:

And that's so absolutely

Speaker:

important to me that this is not, because,

Speaker:

you know, certainly I get a little push,

Speaker:

some push,

Speaker:

fair amount of pushback from folks like,

Speaker:

why are you pushing psychedelic medicine?

Speaker:

I'm not pushing psychedelic medicine.

Speaker:

I'm supporting them saying, look,

Speaker:

this is a healing modality.

Speaker:

It's very different than

Speaker:

what you're used to.

Speaker:

It's not for everybody.

Speaker:

Not everybody needs it.

Speaker:

I mean, I will,

Speaker:

I'll make an argument that actually,

Speaker:

if you don't mind if I go a

Speaker:

little rabbit hole,

Speaker:

I've really come to believe

Speaker:

that truly we are who we

Speaker:

are as humans because of

Speaker:

our relationship with psychedelics.

Speaker:

I agree.

Speaker:

Every culture,

Speaker:

every civilization that we

Speaker:

know anything about,

Speaker:

every religion has a

Speaker:

deep-seated relationship

Speaker:

with psychedelics at some

Speaker:

point in their history.

Speaker:

And so to me,

Speaker:

psychedelics are more like trace mineral.

Speaker:

I can do okay without it,

Speaker:

but if I really want to be

Speaker:

at my best as a human,

Speaker:

I need to have some

Speaker:

psychedelics or part of that.

Speaker:

And that sounds woo-woo

Speaker:

until you actually

Speaker:

understand their effect on inflammation,

Speaker:

their effect on the neural pathways.

Speaker:

So it makes sense when you

Speaker:

dig a little deeper.

Speaker:

So that aside...

Speaker:

Does everybody need to be on psychedelics?

Speaker:

Absolutely not.

Speaker:

Does everybody need to be on chemotherapy?

Speaker:

Absolutely not.

Speaker:

Does everybody know that

Speaker:

they are just different

Speaker:

ways to find our way out of

Speaker:

this delusion of pain and

Speaker:

suffering into the truth with a capital T,

Speaker:

that they're just another

Speaker:

tool that we have to help

Speaker:

us free ourselves of these

Speaker:

issues that we're carrying along with us.

Speaker:

It is the truth.

Speaker:

capital T is like, these are the tools.

Speaker:

These are the teachers.

Speaker:

This is the way the, you know,

Speaker:

not everybody seeks to be awakened.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

But there's okay.

Speaker:

And not everybody needs to be awakened.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And I, I'm firm belief.

Speaker:

And you are too.

Speaker:

Like this is,

Speaker:

these are moving through the reason.

Speaker:

Why is my internet off today?

Speaker:

I don't know why.

Speaker:

Well,

Speaker:

what is one thing you wish every

Speaker:

patient in every practice?

Speaker:

practitioner understood

Speaker:

about this stuff we're

Speaker:

talking about right now?

Speaker:

I've been sitting, I think,

Speaker:

waiting for that question.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

there's so many ways to answer that.

Speaker:

But to me,

Speaker:

if I could send one message home,

Speaker:

it's like,

Speaker:

you are your own healing.

Speaker:

You are in charge.

Speaker:

And don't take no for an answer.

Speaker:

Don't take any other answer.

Speaker:

And I love my wife to death.

Speaker:

She's the most amazing thing

Speaker:

because she is still in that world,

Speaker:

but sees it the way we do.

Speaker:

And so she's fighting the fight.

Speaker:

She's in the halls,

Speaker:

but it's so important for individuals,

Speaker:

for people, for patients,

Speaker:

not to just accept

Speaker:

this right like you are

Speaker:

you're you are your own

Speaker:

healing and and that sounds

Speaker:

like a hallmark thing but

Speaker:

it's so true and you know

Speaker:

it as well as I do right so

Speaker:

again trying to re-empower

Speaker:

folks to say no yeah we

Speaker:

kind of messed up for the

Speaker:

last however many years in

Speaker:

the western medical model

Speaker:

that we're going to take

Speaker:

care of all this and our

Speaker:

the way we define disease

Speaker:

and all those other things

Speaker:

we could get into it's been

Speaker:

helpful but it's it's not everything so

Speaker:

you know, question everything like,

Speaker:

like you are your own advocate.

Speaker:

And I think that's so important.

Speaker:

And, you know, I don't know other ways to,

Speaker:

to really bring that home.

Speaker:

I just need the same thing too.

Speaker:

I was like, you, you,

Speaker:

you say you are your own healer is like,

Speaker:

My mentor says the doctor of

Speaker:

the future is inside of you.

Speaker:

I say the pharmacist of the

Speaker:

future is inside of you.

Speaker:

You can make these chemicals.

Speaker:

You can make the benzos.

Speaker:

You can make the DMT.

Speaker:

You can do the things you

Speaker:

need to do to heal.

Speaker:

That's the word.

Speaker:

We keep seeing heal.

Speaker:

Does it not just drive you

Speaker:

nuts when you actually realize like, oh,

Speaker:

wait a minute,

Speaker:

everything Big Pharma has been making,

Speaker:

we already make inside.

Speaker:

Like we've already been

Speaker:

doing that since day one.

Speaker:

Like we are our own pharmacopeia.

Speaker:

We are our own healers.

Speaker:

Like quite literally, we are walking,

Speaker:

doing this.

Speaker:

I was like,

Speaker:

why have we not seen this before?

Speaker:

Like, why are we looking outside?

Speaker:

Inside out, not outside in.

Speaker:

And we started that

Speaker:

conversation with your story,

Speaker:

like you had gotten all the

Speaker:

things on the outside of the world.

Speaker:

yet we're not fulfilled and

Speaker:

then we start seeking and

Speaker:

then all of a sudden at one

Speaker:

point we all realize

Speaker:

whether it's through plant

Speaker:

medicines or another

Speaker:

healing modality with

Speaker:

breath work or meditation

Speaker:

that we've always had what

Speaker:

we've needed it's just been

Speaker:

looking in the outside in

Speaker:

you know from the inside

Speaker:

out and so that's how

Speaker:

healing works um this has

Speaker:

been an amazing

Speaker:

conversation is there

Speaker:

anything else you oh you're

Speaker:

um you're coming up and speaking at um

Speaker:

Saigon.

Speaker:

Saigon.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Tell us a little bit about that coming up.

Speaker:

So, you know,

Speaker:

this will be my first time there.

Speaker:

But, you know,

Speaker:

the title of my speech is like,

Speaker:

breaking down the current

Speaker:

healthcare paradigm, like,

Speaker:

why do we need to do this?

Speaker:

And it's basically this, like,

Speaker:

it's just any opportunity I

Speaker:

have to inform and educate

Speaker:

and have these conversations.

Speaker:

I love this.

Speaker:

And I really look forward to

Speaker:

we're gonna have many more conversations,

Speaker:

I know.

Speaker:

But we're actually not too

Speaker:

far from each other.

Speaker:

So that's amazing.

Speaker:

So

Speaker:

I'm in Charlotte.

Speaker:

So we're definitely going to

Speaker:

have some in-person powwows here.

Speaker:

And I just look forward to, you know,

Speaker:

building this tribe of

Speaker:

amazing healers and in our

Speaker:

way that it is the right way,

Speaker:

the beautiful way, the medicine way.

Speaker:

Thank you so much.

Speaker:

Thank you so much for all

Speaker:

you're doing for the planet,

Speaker:

for the world, for people.

Speaker:

The world needs more earth keepers.

Speaker:

The world needs more light keepers.

Speaker:

The world needs more healing.

Speaker:

So thank you.

Speaker:

But I'm truly and I'm not

Speaker:

just saying this to say it.

Speaker:

I am truly blessed and

Speaker:

honored to be in a position

Speaker:

to be able to do what I'm doing.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

it wasn't that long ago that

Speaker:

shamanic wisdom was not available,

Speaker:

you know, the plant medicine stuff.

Speaker:

And so we really are in a

Speaker:

really magical golden time.

Speaker:

And so

Speaker:

thank you for what you're

Speaker:

doing thank all of us for

Speaker:

for having the courage and

Speaker:

the wisdom to stand up and

Speaker:

you know just to to speak

Speaker:

our truth uh and that's

Speaker:

really what this is is just

Speaker:

speaking our truth just

Speaker:

showing up and speaking our

Speaker:

truth when I started doing

Speaker:

that like five seven eight

Speaker:

years ago like magic

Speaker:

started happening because

Speaker:

it's true right so speak

Speaker:

your truth and let's stay

Speaker:

in our purpose thank you so

Speaker:

much for all this this was

Speaker:

a great great great episode awesome

Speaker:

Until next time, stay well.

Speaker:

Take care, brother.

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About the Podcast

Beyond the Pills
Where Timeless Wisdom Meets Modern Science For True Healing
In a world saturated with quick fixes and symptom-chasing, Beyond the Pills dares to ask: What if true healing starts from within?

Hosted by Josh Rimany, a conventionally trained pharmacist turned visionary in functional medicine, this podcast invites you on a journey to redefine what health really means. With over 220K global downloads, Beyond the Pills is a trusted source for those ready to move past the traditional model of medicine and step into a deeper, more empowered relationship with their mind, body, and spirit.

Each episode is a conversation that goes deeper than prescriptions—exploring the root causes of dis-ease, the power of lifestyle medicine, and the tools you need to take your health into your own hands.

Whether you're a health professional, conscious consumer, or simply someone who feels there must be more than medications, this podcast is your roadmap to vibrant, sustainable wellness.

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Why Beyond the Pills?

Because health is not just the absence of disease—it’s a state of vitality, alignment, and intention.

Josh Rimany combines the best of both worlds: the credibility of clinical science with the soul of holistic healing. With decades of experience in pharmacy and a passion for root-cause medicine, Josh guides listeners toward a lifestyle that’s proactive, personalized, and purpose-driven.

Beyond the Pills is where ancient wisdom meets cutting-edge science, offering practical steps that anyone can take—regardless of where they are on their health journey.

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