#71: The Way of Life: Reclaiming Ancestral Wisdom and Plant Medicine with Bobby Wade
The Way of Life: Reclaiming Ancestral Wisdom and Plant Medicine with Bobby Wade
In this soul-stirring episode of Beyond The Pills, host Josh Rimany sits down with Bobby Wade—a Sundancer, veteran, father, coach, and devoted student of ancestral plant medicines and indigenous traditions. Bobby is on a mission to bring reverence, truth, and integrity back to the rapidly evolving world of plant medicine.
Together, they explore the often-overlooked importance of honoring indigenous ceremony, the dangers of commercialization in psychedelic spaces, and what it means to walk in alignment with the ancient ways. Bobby shares his personal journey as a water protector and spiritual seeker—and offers powerful insight into what real integration work looks like in a world often chasing quick fixes.
Listeners will be inspired by Bobby’s call to return to rootedness, slow wisdom, and community—preserving these sacred traditions for future generations.
🔗 Connect with Bobby Wade:
Instagram: @b0bbywade
Substack: The Way of Life
Coaching & Offerings: Stan Store
🌿 Featured Work:
Bobby’s powerful integration coaching and educational writing The Way of Life is found on Substack—offering deep support for those preparing for or integrating plant medicine ceremonies.
Key Message:
Respect the roots. Preserve the plants. Real healing is found not in shortcuts, but in returning to the wisdom of our ancestors.
Transcript
Welcome, welcome everybody.
Speaker:Welcome to this episode of
Speaker:Beyond the Pills,
Speaker:where we explore transformative journeys,
Speaker:wellness practices,
Speaker:and the path to just simply
Speaker:authentic healing.
Speaker:I am Josh Remini, your host,
Speaker:pharmacist turned healer.
Speaker:And today we truly have a
Speaker:special guest joining us, Bobby Wade.
Speaker:Bobby is a dedicated student
Speaker:of all ancestral plant medicines,
Speaker:ceremonies, indigenous ways of life.
Speaker:As a sun dancer, water protector, veteran,
Speaker:father, and coach,
Speaker:Bobby brings ancient wisdom
Speaker:with modern living,
Speaker:offering a unique
Speaker:perspective on how we can
Speaker:honor and preserve these traditions.
Speaker:Bobby's mission is to
Speaker:dedicate and inspire and educate,
Speaker:shedding light on the
Speaker:importance of integrating
Speaker:plant medicines with
Speaker:respect and mindfulness,
Speaker:staying true to indigenous cultures,
Speaker:and moving away from
Speaker:commercialized new age practices.
Speaker:Life shares his reflections, teachings,
Speaker:and insights.
Speaker:Bobby, it's an honor to have you here.
Speaker:Welcome to the show.
Speaker:Thank you for having me, Josh.
Speaker:Oh man, we got a lot in common.
Speaker:Ancient wisdom meets modern science,
Speaker:protecting indigenous
Speaker:ways, plant medicine, uh,
Speaker:even your sub stack, like I, the,
Speaker:the name of the sub stack
Speaker:resonates with my life.
Speaker:So just, can you share a little bit about,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:your journey and what led you to
Speaker:immerse yourself in the
Speaker:ancestral plant medicines
Speaker:in this indigenous way of life?
Speaker:Yeah, sure.
Speaker:Um, well, you know, my name's, uh,
Speaker:Bobby Wade and I'm,
Speaker:or I was born in Australia.
Speaker:My ancestors are from, um, uh, Scotland,
Speaker:Ireland and Scandinavia.
Speaker:And I joined the Australian
Speaker:Army when I was seventeen
Speaker:years old and that led me
Speaker:to be serving in
Speaker:Afghanistan at the age of twenty-one,
Speaker:in two thousand and seven,
Speaker:two thousand and eight.
Speaker:I got back from that tour of
Speaker:duty and there's very
Speaker:little support for soldiers,
Speaker:especially in the modern
Speaker:era of theatre or warfare,
Speaker:dealing with PTSD.
Speaker:And a lot of those things
Speaker:can be kind of like
Speaker:suppressed and kept thrown
Speaker:in the back in the wardrobe somewhere.
Speaker:And I ended up discharging
Speaker:from the army and found
Speaker:myself in South America in.
Speaker:And I was on kind of a bit of a,
Speaker:an escape tour, you know,
Speaker:just trying to forget
Speaker:everything and move on.
Speaker:I was, yeah,
Speaker:at the time and I ended up
Speaker:arriving in Columbia.
Speaker:and um through friends of a
Speaker:friend we met this um this
Speaker:healer this medicine man
Speaker:and we ended up drinking
Speaker:jahe or as it's commonly
Speaker:known ayahuasca but in
Speaker:colombia and ecuador it's
Speaker:known as jahe and that was
Speaker:the point which you know
Speaker:everything kind of started
Speaker:to change in my life that
Speaker:was in um from there I
Speaker:returned to australia and
Speaker:Had a few years there and I
Speaker:moved to back to Columbia
Speaker:in two thousand and
Speaker:fourteen and I found that
Speaker:one of the first plant
Speaker:medicine centers called the
Speaker:Eagle Condor Alliance.
Speaker:And our mission,
Speaker:although we were a plant medicine center,
Speaker:our mission was to protect the jungle,
Speaker:protect the medicine and
Speaker:support our elders.
Speaker:So I was in direct
Speaker:partnership with indigenous
Speaker:healers and we worked to help people.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:obviously people come down and
Speaker:heal on different levels.
Speaker:but we would buy up land in the jungle,
Speaker:we would plant medicine,
Speaker:we would send help to our
Speaker:elders every month.
Speaker:So I kind of was thrown in
Speaker:the deep end with that,
Speaker:where I was drinking these
Speaker:large quantities of
Speaker:medicine and different plants, San Pedro,
Speaker:Huachuma, Peyote, Jopo,
Speaker:working with coca leaf and tobacco,
Speaker:mushrooms.
Speaker:sweat lodges, vision quest, sun dancers,
Speaker:just kind of thrown in the
Speaker:deep end and kind of had to
Speaker:learn as I went.
Speaker:And we were able to assist in the,
Speaker:or facilitate in the
Speaker:healing of about seven
Speaker:hundred people in our
Speaker:existence as a retreat center.
Speaker:it was a very good learning
Speaker:curve in terms of how to
Speaker:help people and at the same time,
Speaker:how to keep things real and
Speaker:keep things on the ground
Speaker:in terms of supporting
Speaker:elders and staying in touch
Speaker:with those indigenous ways.
Speaker:So I did that for ten years.
Speaker:We were basically living in
Speaker:this semi-urban environment.
Speaker:So we had all these houses.
Speaker:We just kept grabbing the
Speaker:house that came available
Speaker:next door to the other houses.
Speaker:We had a Moloka and the healers
Speaker:backyard and he'd been
Speaker:established there for about
Speaker:fifteen years.
Speaker:So it was quite known that
Speaker:he was doing medicine there.
Speaker:And then from there we we
Speaker:got some funding and we
Speaker:purchased a piece of land,
Speaker:which is about twenty eight hectares.
Speaker:He's like seventy, seventy acres.
Speaker:And so during COVID,
Speaker:we went out to this piece
Speaker:of land and started working it.
Speaker:me and my wife and our firstborn child,
Speaker:we lived in a tent for
Speaker:eleven months and we had no road,
Speaker:no electricity and we built
Speaker:this road and kind of
Speaker:established a footprint on
Speaker:this land and got this
Speaker:centre up and going.
Speaker:And then I just realised I
Speaker:needed to go home for a bit,
Speaker:reconnect to where I was born and
Speaker:and connect back to my roots in Australia.
Speaker:So I went back to Australia
Speaker:and I started working for
Speaker:Heroic Hearts Project in
Speaker:the US and also in Australia.
Speaker:It's a nonprofit that's
Speaker:focused on getting veterans
Speaker:help through psychedelic
Speaker:therapies with plant
Speaker:medicines or assisted therapy.
Speaker:So I started working with them as a coach,
Speaker:started a podcast, Way of Life,
Speaker:and just all these new kind
Speaker:of avenues or projects came into my life.
Speaker:And yeah, now I'm back in Columbia.
Speaker:It's amazing.
Speaker:A lot to unpack there, you know, but it's,
Speaker:it's, we're seeing this just emergence.
Speaker:And I love that when we
Speaker:connected or before our podcast,
Speaker:it was really important
Speaker:because we have the same philosophies.
Speaker:Like I've been to the South Americas,
Speaker:I've gone through my own
Speaker:transformative journeys.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:with ayahuasca and other plants.
Speaker:And it was really important for me,
Speaker:not only to experience it
Speaker:from this indigenous practice,
Speaker:but also you and I are both
Speaker:connected in this space of
Speaker:very important to preserve, right?
Speaker:Preserve the essence and the way of life,
Speaker:the way of being that these aren't just
Speaker:you know psychedelics and
Speaker:they fix you like there's a
Speaker:whole connection to nature
Speaker:and doing it right and you
Speaker:journeyed through that
Speaker:process you didn't just go
Speaker:like you apprenticed with
Speaker:all these medicines and all
Speaker:these healers and doing it
Speaker:right and and I really
Speaker:wanted to put some emphasis
Speaker:on that because
Speaker:It is in this new age we're in,
Speaker:we're bridging the gap of
Speaker:modern science with ancient wisdom.
Speaker:But at the same time,
Speaker:it's really critical and
Speaker:important for this not to
Speaker:go by the wayside of the
Speaker:modern philosophy only, right?
Speaker:Going through this and, you know,
Speaker:big pharma and all these things grabbing,
Speaker:oh,
Speaker:here's just another drug that's going
Speaker:to mess with your head and
Speaker:then it's going to fix you.
Speaker:Like there's so much more
Speaker:than the medicine.
Speaker:It's this process that we take,
Speaker:and it's this practice of
Speaker:honoring our ancestors and
Speaker:honoring this way.
Speaker:I know you know,
Speaker:but for the example of this
Speaker:with the listeners is the
Speaker:way and manner in which you
Speaker:are conferred upon,
Speaker:because it's more of a calling from them.
Speaker:It's not this, oh,
Speaker:I go to school and I learn it.
Speaker:It's this process that...
Speaker:They're called to do the
Speaker:work and they're
Speaker:apprenticing for very long
Speaker:periods of time, many, sometimes decades,
Speaker:just to be able to have the
Speaker:honor to present the
Speaker:medicines in this way,
Speaker:because there is such a
Speaker:connection with the nature.
Speaker:So talk to, from your perspective,
Speaker:talk to people a little bit about
Speaker:the ancestral way,
Speaker:like the way and manner in which we, this,
Speaker:this process, because it's very, you know,
Speaker:I'm speaking, you're from Australia,
Speaker:I'm speaking from the West
Speaker:world here in America, right?
Speaker:People don't really realize
Speaker:how much in touch they need
Speaker:to be with that side of
Speaker:things because it's very
Speaker:different from our, our, our upbringing,
Speaker:you know?
Speaker:yeah I think the first thing
Speaker:to say is the reason why
Speaker:there's a lot of issues in
Speaker:the world right now is
Speaker:because we're so
Speaker:disconnected from nature um
Speaker:I agree and one of the
Speaker:things I hear a lot is you
Speaker:know native non-native
Speaker:indigenous non-indigenous
Speaker:now you may be non-native
Speaker:to the lands that you live
Speaker:in but you're native to
Speaker:some part of the world and
Speaker:us as you know people
Speaker:ancestry,
Speaker:we've lost a lot of that
Speaker:connection because our
Speaker:ancestors have decided to
Speaker:move countries or the
Speaker:system got to them before
Speaker:it got to the Americas or
Speaker:before it got to Australia.
Speaker:That's not to say that or
Speaker:downplay things that are
Speaker:happening right now with
Speaker:indigenous groups around the world,
Speaker:but there has been a
Speaker:complete loss of connection
Speaker:to who we really are.
Speaker:And there's a necessity to
Speaker:come back to that
Speaker:connection and understand that
Speaker:know when you have these
Speaker:plants when you have these
Speaker:plant medicine you're
Speaker:entering into uh somewhere
Speaker:else's culture right and
Speaker:it's important to to
Speaker:recognize that and but at
Speaker:the same time understand
Speaker:that you have your own
Speaker:culture your own ancestry
Speaker:and you can find that and
Speaker:one of the the best ways I
Speaker:find is is every day just
Speaker:connecting with nature
Speaker:going outside you know
Speaker:forming a dialogue with the
Speaker:environment that you live in
Speaker:Because that's how Indigenous people live.
Speaker:It's not a transactionary
Speaker:kind of service where you
Speaker:go and you pay something
Speaker:and you get something back.
Speaker:It's a constant give and take.
Speaker:Or in the fact that people
Speaker:who live in these parts of the world,
Speaker:it's a constant giving.
Speaker:They're giving to Mother Earth.
Speaker:They're always praying.
Speaker:They're giving offerings.
Speaker:They're observing how nature's working,
Speaker:what's going on in the territories,
Speaker:observing with the medicine,
Speaker:how the medicine's working,
Speaker:what are they seeing.
Speaker:And a lot of people go down
Speaker:and have medicine and think, well,
Speaker:that's it.
Speaker:I'm going to go home and I'm
Speaker:just going to be good.
Speaker:I'm going to integrate it in
Speaker:the middle of New York City.
Speaker:And that's not really...
Speaker:what needs to happen.
Speaker:What needs to happen is we
Speaker:need to understand like, look,
Speaker:I'm also from the earth and
Speaker:I have indigenous ways of
Speaker:being and I need to find that connection.
Speaker:And the easiest way is,
Speaker:connect to water, connect to the earth,
Speaker:connect to the fire, connect to, to, to,
Speaker:to the wind or to, to the air.
Speaker:So walk on the earth, therefore, you know,
Speaker:be in the sun, light a fire,
Speaker:connect to that fire,
Speaker:drink water and breathe.
Speaker:Well,
Speaker:they're the four kind of simplest
Speaker:ways that we can main or
Speaker:start to establish more of
Speaker:a connection with ourselves and ancestry.
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:Well, you hit that,
Speaker:you hit the nail there.
Speaker:Like,
Speaker:it's all about how do you
Speaker:connect to the earth or
Speaker:what are the earth elements, right?
Speaker:It's like really that simple.
Speaker:And I believe too.
Speaker:And when I went through my
Speaker:journeys and when I go through journeys,
Speaker:There's always this innate,
Speaker:there's a beautiful part to
Speaker:the plant medicines that
Speaker:automatically connect you
Speaker:in certain beautiful, profound ways,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:You can't ignore it if
Speaker:you're in the right set and setting.
Speaker:And we know a lot of people
Speaker:understand what that means
Speaker:if they're into plant
Speaker:medicines with the set and setting.
Speaker:why you've emphasized the
Speaker:importance of honoring
Speaker:these tradition these
Speaker:traditions when working
Speaker:with the medicines but why
Speaker:is it so critical
Speaker:especially in today's world
Speaker:because they're
Speaker:disconnected is there
Speaker:something else in there
Speaker:like what's your thought on that
Speaker:think because they hold a
Speaker:lot of keys for how we're
Speaker:going to evolve it's the
Speaker:how it's the how right yeah
Speaker:I agree and I I believe
Speaker:like firmly believe like
Speaker:when you have this what and
Speaker:why like we are
Speaker:our consciousness is changing,
Speaker:humanity is changing, and people sense it,
Speaker:even if you're not really
Speaker:connected into the woo-woo world, right?
Speaker:It's like we know that
Speaker:there's these big shifts
Speaker:changing in our AI and all
Speaker:these other things,
Speaker:but it's not technology.
Speaker:It's the way that we're
Speaker:working through it.
Speaker:You mentioned Sundancer and
Speaker:Water Protector.
Speaker:I'm not sure people really
Speaker:understand what that is,
Speaker:but I want to hear it
Speaker:because this is part of this process.
Speaker:How are these practices,
Speaker:how have they shaped your
Speaker:day-to-day and your
Speaker:approach to life and coaching?
Speaker:Sundance is a ceremony that comes from
Speaker:the Dakota and Dakota
Speaker:nations from North America.
Speaker:We have elders that come
Speaker:down here and run those
Speaker:ceremonies and it's a ceremony of prayer.
Speaker:You know, I'll be the first to say like,
Speaker:I don't, you know, with all humility,
Speaker:I don't know too much about it.
Speaker:Even one of my, you know,
Speaker:my spiritual uncles,
Speaker:he's danced for forty years and he's like,
Speaker:I really don't even know
Speaker:what it's about yet.
Speaker:And that's the beauty of it.
Speaker:I think people want to like
Speaker:analytical and want to just go like,
Speaker:what is that?
Speaker:It's like, no,
Speaker:it's like you kind of just
Speaker:it's it's it's what ever unfolds.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:It's this unfolding of things.
Speaker:But from your perspective,
Speaker:if somebody had to ask you in an elevator,
Speaker:what the heck is a sun dancer?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:It's a it's a it's a ceremony.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:It's something that people
Speaker:are doing to connect.
Speaker:It's a ceremony they're
Speaker:doing to offer prayers.
Speaker:So you put yourself forward
Speaker:to offer prayers for a
Speaker:relative that may be sick
Speaker:and needs some support.
Speaker:So you go through a
Speaker:spiritual sacrifice or
Speaker:fasting in favor of other people.
Speaker:You don't drink any water or
Speaker:eat food for four days, four nights.
Speaker:You do a piercing or an
Speaker:offering of your flesh
Speaker:during the ceremony and
Speaker:you're dancing in the sun.
Speaker:for four days.
Speaker:So it's a ceremony of prayer.
Speaker:And you start to understand and honor.
Speaker:Same with a vision quest
Speaker:ceremony when you're on a
Speaker:mountain for four days and four nights,
Speaker:no food or water.
Speaker:You start to understand what water is.
Speaker:So for me,
Speaker:being able to participate in
Speaker:these ceremonies is a huge honor.
Speaker:They come from lineages and
Speaker:that these lineages are
Speaker:open to accepting people from
Speaker:around the world to use them
Speaker:in the correct manner.
Speaker:And I think, you know,
Speaker:the Western mentality is maybe, okay,
Speaker:well, what can I get out of this?
Speaker:You know, what can I use this for?
Speaker:How can I commercialize this or, you know,
Speaker:put some money behind it?
Speaker:How we should be looking at it is,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:just the gratitude we're able to
Speaker:participate and feel these things,
Speaker:understand, you know,
Speaker:what it's like to go
Speaker:without water for four days.
Speaker:So when you see a running tap, you know,
Speaker:instinctively you want to,
Speaker:You want to turn that off all the time.
Speaker:Water protector for me is
Speaker:someone that's constantly
Speaker:praying for clean water,
Speaker:protecting and helping out
Speaker:people in different situations,
Speaker:different groups that need support.
Speaker:And we've done a lot of work
Speaker:here in Antioquia, in Colombia,
Speaker:in the Bucamajor region of Colombia,
Speaker:where we've done a lot of
Speaker:conservation work,
Speaker:which is directly
Speaker:supporting certain
Speaker:waterways and ensuring that
Speaker:they're kept clean.
Speaker:So for me,
Speaker:that's the most important thing.
Speaker:And that's one of the main teachings.
Speaker:I'm sure you've heard it, you know,
Speaker:water is life.
Speaker:That's a pretty famous
Speaker:slogan that's come out
Speaker:recently in the last few years.
Speaker:And it really is protecting that,
Speaker:protecting the waterways of the earth.
Speaker:So for me, it's use of water,
Speaker:who's praying for that,
Speaker:who's actively engaging in
Speaker:activities or supporting
Speaker:people that are concerned with water.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:And you touched about a, a,
Speaker:a thing that's also true to my,
Speaker:my journey in my life is, you know,
Speaker:not only protect like we're earth keepers,
Speaker:like the water, the water, you know,
Speaker:protectors, the light, you know, being.
Speaker:Like, all of this is, like,
Speaker:really important from the
Speaker:perspective of just, like, Earth, like,
Speaker:in protecting the Earth.
Speaker:And then you said something
Speaker:that I think is... Someone
Speaker:may have missed it.
Speaker:They didn't catch it because
Speaker:it's not common to their thought process,
Speaker:but...
Speaker:We've been talking about
Speaker:this is like a post-tribal age, right?
Speaker:This is not where we've been
Speaker:in these tribes,
Speaker:in these ancestral spaces
Speaker:where we had generation upon generation.
Speaker:And so we moved out of the tribes,
Speaker:and I've been a big fan of
Speaker:studying shamanism.
Speaker:not just with plant medicines,
Speaker:but with energy medicine.
Speaker:And, you know,
Speaker:I've studied under the
Speaker:lineages and been conferred
Speaker:upon this and you said it,
Speaker:which is really,
Speaker:it really excited me because these,
Speaker:these protectors of this wisdom,
Speaker:these wisdom keepers,
Speaker:I call them right there.
Speaker:They're,
Speaker:they are willing to share
Speaker:this with the people that we can,
Speaker:they want us to move this into the West.
Speaker:They want us to do this.
Speaker:And they also want to bring
Speaker:the wisdom teachings down
Speaker:because sometimes with the
Speaker:post-tribal age,
Speaker:and I experienced this with
Speaker:the Shibipo healers in Peru,
Speaker:was the same thing is,
Speaker:We're moving this out to
Speaker:teach other people to
Speaker:preserve the wisdom of these teachings.
Speaker:And they're willing to share
Speaker:with us now in this way
Speaker:because they want humanity
Speaker:to evolve in this space.
Speaker:So it's really cool that you
Speaker:said that because I feel
Speaker:grateful to be able to be a
Speaker:part of this as well and
Speaker:learning and certifying and
Speaker:going through my own
Speaker:journey through shamanic training.
Speaker:and and having that that um
Speaker:this massive amount of
Speaker:gratitude that they're
Speaker:willing to share something
Speaker:that they've had so close
Speaker:to themselves you know and
Speaker:it's something that they're
Speaker:very open they like these
Speaker:earth keepers these wisdom
Speaker:keepers are very open but
Speaker:so I'm glad that you said
Speaker:that because that's what
Speaker:the experience I've had too
Speaker:is they're really open to
Speaker:be sharing this wisdom to
Speaker:pr but also to protect it
Speaker:like it's so beautiful this
Speaker:exchange because
Speaker:They literally have opened the doors,
Speaker:if you will,
Speaker:to the greater part of humanity.
Speaker:Because in general, for thousands of years,
Speaker:it's been secured into the
Speaker:places where they were.
Speaker:And so it's kind of this
Speaker:beautiful dance of modern
Speaker:technology or the modern era.
Speaker:But also this is why I love
Speaker:the beauty of it,
Speaker:because we're also putting
Speaker:some levels of modern
Speaker:science into it from other perspectives,
Speaker:like the people that I've learned from.
Speaker:with quantum energy and quantum healing.
Speaker:So we're hearing it from the
Speaker:brain we've kind of developed on our side,
Speaker:but this ancient practices
Speaker:have already been there, right?
Speaker:And now they're sharing it.
Speaker:So it's kind of like full circle both ways,
Speaker:almost like you're hearing
Speaker:it the medicine way from
Speaker:like what we call the
Speaker:grandmother way and then
Speaker:the grandfather way.
Speaker:And it's like so nice
Speaker:because it just symbolizes the vortexes,
Speaker:you know?
Speaker:So thanks for bringing that
Speaker:up and moving that forward.
Speaker:I don't want to talk about healing.
Speaker:What are some... Because
Speaker:there's been a lot of commercialization,
Speaker:right, on this new age,
Speaker:especially with the veterans.
Speaker:I definitely want to dig in
Speaker:on this because it's a big piece for me,
Speaker:too,
Speaker:that we finally have some healing
Speaker:things that we can...
Speaker:use as tools in our toolbox,
Speaker:especially for veterans,
Speaker:because they've been so
Speaker:underserved with all this
Speaker:traumatic events and the PTSD.
Speaker:But there's been a ton of
Speaker:commercialization and new
Speaker:age branding around plant
Speaker:medicine lately.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:So what are the biggest some
Speaker:of the biggest
Speaker:misconceptions you're
Speaker:seeing or you see and how
Speaker:do you address them in the
Speaker:work you're doing?
Speaker:I think first and foremost,
Speaker:through education.
Speaker:differentiating between
Speaker:there's different chemical
Speaker:psychedelics which are
Speaker:effectively helping people
Speaker:ketamine mdma um you know
Speaker:psilocybin not in its you
Speaker:know traditional form uh
Speaker:and they're they're
Speaker:definitely helping people
Speaker:in the clinical setting and
Speaker:I'm not yeah I come on here to
Speaker:say it's like this or like that,
Speaker:or to disrespect.
Speaker:I say it with a lot of
Speaker:respect that maybe someone
Speaker:who's living in a pretty
Speaker:heavy urban environment
Speaker:needs to be in a clinical
Speaker:setting compared to a
Speaker:traditional kind of maloca
Speaker:setting in the middle of the Amazon.
Speaker:Maybe that's what they need.
Speaker:And that's good that we have
Speaker:these options available.
Speaker:But for me, it's more,
Speaker:if these plants are going to be used, i.e.
Speaker:the actual plant medicine,
Speaker:that they're not taken away
Speaker:again from traditions,
Speaker:from the people that have
Speaker:been protecting them for
Speaker:thousands of years.
Speaker:An example is like in the way that we talk,
Speaker:it's like we need to
Speaker:protect these indigenous people.
Speaker:And it's like, well, not really.
Speaker:Like they've been protecting
Speaker:themselves and taking care
Speaker:of themselves for thousands of years.
Speaker:Like they're okay.
Speaker:It can slip in in a way of like, well,
Speaker:we're better because we're more advanced.
Speaker:We need to take care of them,
Speaker:kind of like they're a little brother.
Speaker:But what we need to do is
Speaker:bring them forward and
Speaker:bring them basically to the
Speaker:center of decisions that
Speaker:are being made around these
Speaker:plant medicines and let them talk.
Speaker:um and and also support the
Speaker:protection of the
Speaker:traditions and support them
Speaker:but it's for me it's not
Speaker:about protecting them per
Speaker:se you know but they'll
Speaker:they'll take care of
Speaker:themselves don't worry
Speaker:about that but for me it's
Speaker:a lot around education it's a lot around
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:there's some really good work
Speaker:with veterans.
Speaker:They're getting down and
Speaker:having plant medicine in
Speaker:places like Mexico and Peru
Speaker:here in Columbia.
Speaker:But it's educating people
Speaker:around the need to go slow.
Speaker:You know, I think one of the main things,
Speaker:one of the biggest things
Speaker:right now is in the West,
Speaker:we want to speed everything up.
Speaker:So we come along plant medicine.
Speaker:We stumble along onto yoga, meditation.
Speaker:We want to speed it up.
Speaker:We want to make something out of it.
Speaker:And some of these things,
Speaker:you can't do that.
Speaker:Yeah, for sure.
Speaker:It's not a product.
Speaker:It's a way of life.
Speaker:It's a spiritual practice.
Speaker:It has millennia behind it
Speaker:of people using it.
Speaker:They say ayahuasca has been
Speaker:used for ten thousand years
Speaker:in the Amazon basin.
Speaker:uh peyote's been found four
Speaker:and a half five thousand
Speaker:years old in mesoamerica
Speaker:you know we've been using
Speaker:psychedelics for for
Speaker:forever but you know are we
Speaker:gonna do we need to
Speaker:capitalize on these no what
Speaker:we need to do is we need to
Speaker:like take a take a breath
Speaker:and slow down and see where
Speaker:we're taking it because the
Speaker:more we're commercializing
Speaker:it the more we're just
Speaker:doing harm it's a great uh
Speaker:it rings true too,
Speaker:because it is kind of a little bit of the,
Speaker:the antithesis of our modern day era,
Speaker:which is like super on demand.
Speaker:Like I've got kids and
Speaker:they're eight and ten and it's like,
Speaker:they don't realize that
Speaker:like you even have to wait
Speaker:for like a commercial to
Speaker:get to the next segment in your TV.
Speaker:It's like, I need it now.
Speaker:And there's this nowness to like, oh,
Speaker:I'm injured, I'm hurt.
Speaker:And it's like that art,
Speaker:that art of non-doing and
Speaker:slowing things down to this divine,
Speaker:the divine timing of all things.
Speaker:And I've found that in many
Speaker:areas of my life,
Speaker:not just in this perspective.
Speaker:But I love that you brought
Speaker:that up because it's such a nice...
Speaker:It is how it works.
Speaker:This is why things have
Speaker:been... What I also got,
Speaker:especially in Peru,
Speaker:when I was in the Amazon,
Speaker:I was in the Andes last summer,
Speaker:was there isn't that rush to
Speaker:get things done and get on your calendar.
Speaker:And I speak a lot to this now,
Speaker:this art of non-doing.
Speaker:And one of my mantras that's
Speaker:been shared with me with
Speaker:one of my spiritual mentors
Speaker:and teachers over the years
Speaker:has been the phrase of push less,
Speaker:allow more.
Speaker:And that's kind of what
Speaker:we're talking about here is
Speaker:just allowing this to just slow down.
Speaker:Healing is a journey.
Speaker:It's not a destination.
Speaker:And when people go through these journeys,
Speaker:it's almost like who you
Speaker:become in the process,
Speaker:not just the experience.
Speaker:I wanna talk a little bit and it would be
Speaker:We would be remiss if we
Speaker:didn't about integration
Speaker:and healing and talking to
Speaker:people about it.
Speaker:Like, yes, there's a process to screen.
Speaker:There's a process to find
Speaker:out what medicine is right for you,
Speaker:where you go, how you go.
Speaker:There's obviously doing it
Speaker:right with the journey itself.
Speaker:um very important for me
Speaker:like I wanted to do it the
Speaker:the traditional route and
Speaker:that's why I chose it and
Speaker:you we talked about it's
Speaker:not one or the other it's
Speaker:it's kind of an and it's
Speaker:like where when you decide
Speaker:I always I always agree I
Speaker:think we talked about it
Speaker:when we first met was like
Speaker:when you decide
Speaker:that this is part of your
Speaker:journey and the plants are
Speaker:gonna be part of that.
Speaker:It's sort of like that's
Speaker:when they start working and
Speaker:that's when this divine timing starts.
Speaker:And can you explain to
Speaker:people from your perspective,
Speaker:because I know this is a
Speaker:big part of who you are and
Speaker:what you're doing about real integration.
Speaker:What does that look like
Speaker:after participating in a ceremony?
Speaker:Because to me,
Speaker:All three, the preparation,
Speaker:the journey work, and the integration,
Speaker:to me, are all very,
Speaker:very equally important,
Speaker:a part of the process.
Speaker:Definitely.
Speaker:Some of my elders say the
Speaker:ceremony begins when you
Speaker:leave the ceremonial space.
Speaker:Your real life is the real ceremony.
Speaker:and the need for integration
Speaker:is huge but a lot of people
Speaker:will think they go into a
Speaker:plant medicine ceremony and
Speaker:they feel euphoric they
Speaker:come out they feel amazing
Speaker:and they just ride that
Speaker:high you know like
Speaker:everything's good and two
Speaker:weeks go past and then all
Speaker:of a sudden the honeymoon
Speaker:period's over and it's a
Speaker:there's a big dramatic drop
Speaker:in everything and integration
Speaker:is so important.
Speaker:Think about in the jungle,
Speaker:what's integration?
Speaker:Integration is just being in nature.
Speaker:It's just working and doing hunting,
Speaker:fishing, weaving, planting food,
Speaker:building construction,
Speaker:other forms of ceremony.
Speaker:So that continues to happen.
Speaker:It's like a way of life.
Speaker:Indigenous people of the
Speaker:Americas have always had
Speaker:that down pat in terms of
Speaker:what just keeps happening.
Speaker:So you're able to find the
Speaker:answers that you need or
Speaker:things in ceremony that may
Speaker:have been a little left
Speaker:unanswered or open ends, weren't tied up.
Speaker:You can find those answers
Speaker:in an integration phase.
Speaker:Now, like I said before,
Speaker:if you have a spiritual
Speaker:experience in a natural environment,
Speaker:then you need to continue
Speaker:your integration phase in a
Speaker:natural environment,
Speaker:because that's your natural environment.
Speaker:You know, as a human being, we're,
Speaker:we're part of nature.
Speaker:So you can't expect to go
Speaker:from a large city, you know,
Speaker:down to the jungle, decompress,
Speaker:do this medicine work, come back and like,
Speaker:everything's magically gonna change.
Speaker:It's like, you've gotta,
Speaker:you've gotta put the work
Speaker:in and do some serious changes in,
Speaker:in the way you're living.
Speaker:And that is,
Speaker:a reconnection to nature, you know,
Speaker:one of them,
Speaker:I find the one of the main
Speaker:problems with mental health
Speaker:is a lack of connection with nature,
Speaker:you know, go sit in the sun, like,
Speaker:why are we so afraid of the sun, you know,
Speaker:like, it's gonna burn us, it's this,
Speaker:it's that it's like the sun is there,
Speaker:it's giving us energy,
Speaker:if you respect it and use
Speaker:it the right way, it's going to heal you.
Speaker:You know, if we walk on the earth,
Speaker:if you go swim in a river, go camping,
Speaker:light a fire,
Speaker:plants and food,
Speaker:even if you live in your city, you can,
Speaker:I'm sure you have, you know,
Speaker:like a balcony somewhere
Speaker:where you can plant one plant, you know,
Speaker:and you can maintain a
Speaker:connection to some form of nature.
Speaker:So integration is that it's
Speaker:coming back and, you know,
Speaker:staying connected to the
Speaker:spiritual technologies of the earth.
Speaker:And that's a huge piece like Mother Earth,
Speaker:Pachamama, like,
Speaker:you don't need to be
Speaker:absorbed into the Amazon to
Speaker:experience nature, right?
Speaker:There's a reason these
Speaker:elements are vital for life, water,
Speaker:sunlight, vitamin D, like all of it,
Speaker:like grounding in the earth.
Speaker:So you can, and breath,
Speaker:like we're breathing, we have to breathe,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:So it's like, we can understand,
Speaker:but when you're doing it with intention,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:You're doing it with
Speaker:So integration is
Speaker:integrating your experience, of course.
Speaker:And how does it unfold into your,
Speaker:your rehab?
Speaker:I'm still in it.
Speaker:We always integrating, right?
Speaker:You're moving through that process.
Speaker:And so I think that's, that's a key here.
Speaker:People didn't realize like, it's not just,
Speaker:Oh, get out in nature.
Speaker:I just tell people, it's like,
Speaker:go for a walk in nature but
Speaker:don't grab this and start
Speaker:scrolling that's not what
Speaker:we're talking about like
Speaker:but that's what people
Speaker:think like it's almost
Speaker:automatic like oh I'm just
Speaker:gonna go for a walk and
Speaker:then all of a sudden I'm no
Speaker:I'm connecting I'm
Speaker:literally you know I try to
Speaker:do grounding every morning
Speaker:I'm always trying to do
Speaker:something in nature and and
Speaker:what the beauty I think is is when if you
Speaker:if you screen and you do the
Speaker:proper harm reduction and
Speaker:you in plant medicines are
Speaker:good for you and you think
Speaker:it's going to be good for
Speaker:your journey and then you go do it.
Speaker:It's like,
Speaker:you can't not be connected into nature.
Speaker:And it just sort of becomes
Speaker:the process for me.
Speaker:It becomes the process for people.
Speaker:And then you can also just
Speaker:keep it simple and say, all right,
Speaker:when you go on vacation,
Speaker:you generally go to the
Speaker:mountains or the beach, right?
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And there's a reason for that,
Speaker:because not because it looks right.
Speaker:It's because you feel connected.
Speaker:You feel less stressed.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:You're it's it's automatic.
Speaker:Like there's nothing you
Speaker:have to really do to
Speaker:connect with nature except
Speaker:to unplug from the things
Speaker:that don't connect you to nature.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:That's pretty much it.
Speaker:Sit with yourself.
Speaker:Close your eyes and just appreciate, love,
Speaker:talk to nature.
Speaker:It is so very therapeutic.
Speaker:So thank you for putting
Speaker:that at the very forefront,
Speaker:especially as we're
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:we know mental health and mental
Speaker:illnesses and anxiety and
Speaker:depression and all.
Speaker:We know that these things are on the rise.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And we also know that, you know,
Speaker:if you're listening to this podcast,
Speaker:you're probably also agree
Speaker:that medications aren't.
Speaker:The only way to help,
Speaker:I feel like they just mask the symptom.
Speaker:In fact, they say in exercise,
Speaker:like movement, getting out in nature,
Speaker:these are things that are
Speaker:actually therapeutic,
Speaker:not just nice things to do.
Speaker:Like we're actually moving
Speaker:to therapeutics here.
Speaker:So I love lifestyle medicine.
Speaker:It's free.
Speaker:It doesn't cost you anything
Speaker:to go outside and connect
Speaker:with nature at all.
Speaker:And if you don't believe the science,
Speaker:just check out where blue
Speaker:zones are and why people
Speaker:live to a hundred more often than not.
Speaker:One of the biggest things is
Speaker:community and connection and connection,
Speaker:not only with themselves,
Speaker:with other people, community, right?
Speaker:Tribe connection with your environment.
Speaker:That's what we're talking about in nature.
Speaker:And then connection to spirit,
Speaker:which is also part of that component,
Speaker:you know?
Speaker:So thank you for bringing that up.
Speaker:What, um,
Speaker:Just if I can add something on that.
Speaker:Yeah, I was just going to ask,
Speaker:what do you want to add on that?
Speaker:There's a lot of stuff in there.
Speaker:I find also with integration
Speaker:is it's the responsibility of someone.
Speaker:You've had an experience
Speaker:with plant medicine.
Speaker:You've been in a traditional setting.
Speaker:The healers have worked on you.
Speaker:They've cleared your energetic field.
Speaker:They've given you like a cleanse,
Speaker:like an energetic cleanse.
Speaker:You're feeling amazing.
Speaker:You've purged all these things out.
Speaker:it's like, well,
Speaker:what are you gonna do with that?
Speaker:You know, how, how can then you,
Speaker:you've used this plant,
Speaker:the plant's given its life, you know,
Speaker:so that you could ingest it, take it,
Speaker:eat it, drink it.
Speaker:How are you then gonna use that, you know,
Speaker:going forward in your life?
Speaker:Are you like,
Speaker:what positivity are you gonna bring into,
Speaker:into life?
Speaker:And also, you know,
Speaker:when we're doing integration correctly,
Speaker:we're preserving or we're
Speaker:contributing to the
Speaker:sustainability of plant medicine.
Speaker:not running back every five
Speaker:minutes that's not to say
Speaker:that you can't let's say
Speaker:study plants yeah because
Speaker:there are people you know
Speaker:especially within
Speaker:indigenous groups in the
Speaker:americas who are
Speaker:consistently having plant
Speaker:medicine but it becomes a
Speaker:study they're studying the
Speaker:medicine to understand
Speaker:better life to be better at
Speaker:life so the whole objective is not
Speaker:It's not about how many
Speaker:things you can see and
Speaker:getting kind of addicted to
Speaker:like being in a visionary
Speaker:state or being in this euphoric state.
Speaker:It's how can I use this
Speaker:responsibly to then be better at life?
Speaker:Well, that's to me,
Speaker:that's the essence of all
Speaker:this true healing is really
Speaker:how do you become the best
Speaker:version of yourself to help
Speaker:her not only protect, you know,
Speaker:the plants and the
Speaker:environment is like to help people.
Speaker:what's your role in humanity?
Speaker:What's your role in
Speaker:up-leveling our existence as a group,
Speaker:as a collective, moving in that space?
Speaker:And I think
Speaker:the opposite of that is pretty critical.
Speaker:Cause you, you know, you're,
Speaker:you've been working with veterans and,
Speaker:and you know,
Speaker:and you've been working
Speaker:directly with some really
Speaker:cool groups and really doing good work.
Speaker:So thank you, by the way.
Speaker:I'm working a lot with Joe
Speaker:Dispenza's work.
Speaker:We're doing some stuff with
Speaker:other like non-plant
Speaker:medicine activities and
Speaker:plant medicine activities.
Speaker:Cause we know
Speaker:that we get a seventy to
Speaker:eighty percent cure rate on
Speaker:these conditions that have
Speaker:been treatment refractive.
Speaker:In other words,
Speaker:medications and talk
Speaker:therapy didn't even work.
Speaker:And now we're getting to
Speaker:places where people are healing.
Speaker:So this work is really important.
Speaker:And there's a lot of people
Speaker:doing it wrong.
Speaker:There's a lot of abuse.
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:I've heard of stories and I've
Speaker:been in rooms where people
Speaker:are working with veterans
Speaker:because they had a negative
Speaker:experience where they were sent to Mexico,
Speaker:did a lot of aboga or whatever they did,
Speaker:and then they just shoved,
Speaker:like they almost didn't integrate them.
Speaker:They just went back into humanity.
Speaker:There was no process there.
Speaker:So I'm very grateful to be
Speaker:part of this tribe of collective
Speaker:people that are really
Speaker:really putting putting this
Speaker:effort on it in a way
Speaker:that's very heart-centered
Speaker:and sacred so thank you for
Speaker:bringing that up it's it's
Speaker:just the more the more like
Speaker:it's kind of like the more
Speaker:that this is kind of
Speaker:unfolding in the modern era
Speaker:we're all we're starting to
Speaker:see the the what I don't
Speaker:want to call it the
Speaker:humanistic side but the the
Speaker:the modern day side where
Speaker:it just started like what
Speaker:what I've been seeing and
Speaker:hearing things that just
Speaker:and maybe it's just not my
Speaker:nature because I've got like, you know,
Speaker:love on my bottle.
Speaker:Like this is what I do.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:And so it's just nice to
Speaker:hear and being refreshed
Speaker:that like people like you
Speaker:and I are like really here to,
Speaker:to do it the right way.
Speaker:And with purpose, not for intention of, no,
Speaker:I'm just gonna,
Speaker:I do this as this is my job, right?
Speaker:This is no, it's a calling.
Speaker:This is something you're,
Speaker:you're called to do.
Speaker:Um,
Speaker:So let's talk a little bit
Speaker:more about just the work you're doing,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:The work you're doing, you move back,
Speaker:you're establishing
Speaker:yourself back in Columbia,
Speaker:working your way back into
Speaker:this process to help other people.
Speaker:And I'm curious a little bit,
Speaker:because you talked to me a
Speaker:little bit about your work
Speaker:on Substack and the way of life.
Speaker:Tell us a little bit about
Speaker:what inspired you to start
Speaker:sharing your insights.
Speaker:I actually had a dream one
Speaker:night and I woke up at two
Speaker:in the morning and there
Speaker:was a voice that just told
Speaker:me to do Substack.
Speaker:And I'd never heard of it.
Speaker:I had to Google it and find
Speaker:out what it was.
Speaker:this happens by the way to a
Speaker:lot of people in my circles
Speaker:it's like when people say I
Speaker:got a download or I had a
Speaker:dream so it makes me laugh
Speaker:only because I I know like
Speaker:it just somebody said it
Speaker:said it and I had to do it
Speaker:and look what happened so I just
Speaker:it happens right it wasn't
Speaker:like it was it was a
Speaker:full-on like experience and
Speaker:you're like I don't I
Speaker:didn't even know what
Speaker:substack was that I had to
Speaker:do it so tell us a little
Speaker:bit about that how that how
Speaker:that transpired yeah so um
Speaker:so I googled substack and
Speaker:understood it was like a
Speaker:writing platform and you
Speaker:know podcasts and everything and
Speaker:I just thought about what I
Speaker:was seeing in Australia at
Speaker:the time in the psychedelic
Speaker:scene and a lot of
Speaker:unqualified people using
Speaker:plant medicine in not the right ways.
Speaker:And then a lot of people
Speaker:that were kind of lost and
Speaker:this gap that we've kind of
Speaker:created in modern society
Speaker:where we seek out mentors or coaches,
Speaker:but in ancestral ways of living,
Speaker:we always have elders.
Speaker:It's not a bad thing.
Speaker:I think coaches get like a bad rap.
Speaker:The word coach,
Speaker:it's kind of a loaded word.
Speaker:But in an ancestral community,
Speaker:you would go and seek
Speaker:counsel from the elders.
Speaker:They would help you
Speaker:understand or interpret
Speaker:things or maybe process things.
Speaker:difficult situation.
Speaker:So for me,
Speaker:it was being able to be a bridge,
Speaker:basically just being a bridge to allow,
Speaker:uh, elders to come on, uh,
Speaker:and be interviewed and talk
Speaker:to them about how,
Speaker:how they live their lives.
Speaker:Like how do they stay connected to nature?
Speaker:Uh,
Speaker:talk about different ways of living
Speaker:plant medicine.
Speaker:And I recently inter interviewed, uh, uh,
Speaker:co fund, uh, elder from, from Ecuador.
Speaker:And he raised some really
Speaker:good points about,
Speaker:plant medicine that people
Speaker:think that they drink
Speaker:medicine two or three times or like, yeah,
Speaker:the medicine told me that I
Speaker:need to serve it.
Speaker:I need to be like a healer.
Speaker:And that's a common thing
Speaker:I've seen a lot where
Speaker:people are doing short
Speaker:courses or having small
Speaker:amounts of plant medicine
Speaker:thinking they can just drop
Speaker:into that realm and offer
Speaker:it to other people.
Speaker:And he made a very good
Speaker:point where he was like,
Speaker:that may well happen the
Speaker:medicine may tell you that
Speaker:but that might be just a
Speaker:test from the medicine that
Speaker:you weren't aware of it's
Speaker:just testing you it's just
Speaker:seeing seeing who you
Speaker:really are so it's this
Speaker:kind of like knowledge and
Speaker:information that um yeah my
Speaker:mission right now with the
Speaker:way of life is to broadcast
Speaker:that to bring awareness to
Speaker:these people in these
Speaker:indigenous groups and also
Speaker:help people that are you
Speaker:know stuck and just need like a
Speaker:like a virtual word of
Speaker:support or advice or
Speaker:something that they can
Speaker:bring into their daily way of living.
Speaker:That's a great story, by the way.
Speaker:Actually,
Speaker:it's funny because I pulled an
Speaker:Oracle card this morning, actually, and
Speaker:There's a lot of
Speaker:transformation going on in my life.
Speaker:One is just going all in on
Speaker:wellness and releasing the
Speaker:retail prescription
Speaker:business and just moving in
Speaker:on wellness and healing and
Speaker:doing these things.
Speaker:And it's like, there's a lot, right?
Speaker:There's a lot going on.
Speaker:And I pulled a card and it
Speaker:was the journey card and it
Speaker:was upside down.
Speaker:So I read...
Speaker:What's the medicine I'm
Speaker:supposed to learn here?
Speaker:And it was really similar to
Speaker:what you said.
Speaker:It was like, you know,
Speaker:the journey has been revealed,
Speaker:but it may not be the right timing.
Speaker:Like you still have things
Speaker:you need to take care of in order to
Speaker:move through it and and and
Speaker:and don't don't
Speaker:misinterpret right that's
Speaker:what like that was you're
Speaker:saying don't misinterpret
Speaker:the journey right now
Speaker:because there's things you
Speaker:need to do in order to not
Speaker:just think about the
Speaker:journey and where you're going but like
Speaker:what are you doing right now?
Speaker:And it was just really
Speaker:similar when you said like,
Speaker:maybe that's a test, right?
Speaker:That the medicine testing you, because,
Speaker:you know, in my mind, it's not,
Speaker:it's not this linear approach to how the,
Speaker:how the world or the
Speaker:universe unfolds for you.
Speaker:It's like,
Speaker:it's multidimensional and it can
Speaker:go in many different directions.
Speaker:However,
Speaker:Like there's not this like, oh,
Speaker:you just got to do that, that, that,
Speaker:and that.
Speaker:It's like one thing unfolds to the other.
Speaker:And just,
Speaker:it was that perfect reminder of
Speaker:like the slow down we talked about,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:With me, I know I'm like,
Speaker:I have this awesome North Star.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:And it's like,
Speaker:but dude, it may not be the right time.
Speaker:So let's, let's slow down.
Speaker:Let's just, I love sin.
Speaker:I love contemplation right now.
Speaker:It's like a big thing for me
Speaker:to just sit and contemplate.
Speaker:It's very different.
Speaker:It's a form of meditation for me,
Speaker:but it's really just
Speaker:contemplating on that whole process.
Speaker:So I love that little story about like,
Speaker:yeah, I'm called to do the medicine.
Speaker:So now I'm going to take a
Speaker:three month course and I'm
Speaker:going to get here and go here.
Speaker:And it's like, maybe not, maybe not.
Speaker:So,
Speaker:I love that little ditty you gave us.
Speaker:So how do people get on the
Speaker:platform for Substack,
Speaker:and how do they find the way of life?
Speaker:Because I think this is important.
Speaker:The stuff you're doing is great,
Speaker:and I can't wait to dive in too,
Speaker:because...
Speaker:part of what my journey is,
Speaker:is to learn as much as I
Speaker:can from these elders while
Speaker:they're still here, because what I,
Speaker:and why I think they're, it's not,
Speaker:they're not just trying to preserve this.
Speaker:They're there.
Speaker:This is part of who they are as elders.
Speaker:You impart your wisdom and
Speaker:they're doing this in awesome, cool ways.
Speaker:And now you're doing it digitally.
Speaker:And, and,
Speaker:and so how do people find that
Speaker:your sub stack?
Speaker:Yeah.
Speaker:So if you just go on
Speaker:substack.com and look up the way of life,
Speaker:Okay.
Speaker:That simple.
Speaker:You can find it and it's free.
Speaker:Subscribe for free or you
Speaker:can be a paid member if you like,
Speaker:but all my content with the
Speaker:elders is free.
Speaker:That's beautiful.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:I've been studying tribal shamanism,
Speaker:post-tribal shamanism for
Speaker:many years and it's just
Speaker:there's always these common
Speaker:threads and themes,
Speaker:but there's such a nice
Speaker:nuance of how others,
Speaker:because they've all learned
Speaker:it in some interesting way in their place,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:We talked about that earlier, right?
Speaker:And so it's really just a
Speaker:beautiful way to impart
Speaker:wisdom and to learn these things that are,
Speaker:it's almost like I turned
Speaker:fifty this year and over my
Speaker:journey of forty-nine,
Speaker:And I've gone through this
Speaker:massive like change in my life,
Speaker:but really good change.
Speaker:It's like, Oh,
Speaker:I've done all the science and wellness.
Speaker:I've gone all the, the,
Speaker:the analytical and the like,
Speaker:and now it's like coming
Speaker:all four circles.
Speaker:Like you're moving from here
Speaker:to here and you're connecting the two,
Speaker:but it's kind of like this
Speaker:awakening is like, Oh,
Speaker:I only kind of had half.
Speaker:I got it.
Speaker:I kind of just on half of
Speaker:where I'm supposed to learn by now,
Speaker:which is kind of fun.
Speaker:Cause I feel like I'm only
Speaker:halfway there or more so.
Speaker:I love that we can connect on these ways.
Speaker:How do your listeners
Speaker:support this conservation
Speaker:of sacred plants in the communities?
Speaker:You've got the little,
Speaker:if they choose to do the
Speaker:paid channels or things like that,
Speaker:but what can just anyone do?
Speaker:Yeah,
Speaker:I think the most important thing to
Speaker:do is educate yourself.
Speaker:And if you're gonna have plant medicine,
Speaker:really investigate.
Speaker:who's offering the medicine,
Speaker:where does it come from, what tradition,
Speaker:what lineage,
Speaker:what elders are they supporting?
Speaker:There's different
Speaker:organizations out there
Speaker:which you can research that
Speaker:are supporting directly the
Speaker:conservation of plant medicine.
Speaker:But it's really about
Speaker:educating yourself and
Speaker:understanding that this is
Speaker:someone's culture.
Speaker:This is someone's way of
Speaker:life and we need to,
Speaker:we can be a part of it.
Speaker:we can we can step in and
Speaker:heal ourselves and learn
Speaker:but we need to be very
Speaker:aware of the the necessity
Speaker:to support and protect
Speaker:these these ways of life
Speaker:because if we don't you
Speaker:know they're not going to
Speaker:be there for for a long
Speaker:time yeah I think that's a
Speaker:huge piece of the I think
Speaker:conservation is not the
Speaker:word I'm looking for but
Speaker:it's the essence of right
Speaker:it's it's moving
Speaker:Because, you know,
Speaker:you have this experience
Speaker:and you do it directly.
Speaker:And what I think people don't understand,
Speaker:it's not like Shaman goes
Speaker:to work and then he gets
Speaker:paid and then he builds a house.
Speaker:Like, it goes back to the communities.
Speaker:It goes and it's like this beautiful...
Speaker:different version than I've
Speaker:been used to till I started
Speaker:learning this of like this
Speaker:pay it forward process, you know,
Speaker:and it's just it's so nice
Speaker:because it feels good all
Speaker:the way through.
Speaker:And that's when I know it's
Speaker:a really big thing.
Speaker:I'm curious just for my
Speaker:particular perspective, but like,
Speaker:is there a particular
Speaker:teaching or experience
Speaker:outside like not just like
Speaker:your plant medicine journeys, but like,
Speaker:that's had a profound shape on your path?
Speaker:someone that you've directly
Speaker:worked with or like, I'm just curious,
Speaker:because we all kind of are
Speaker:connected in these spaces
Speaker:and we have the people that really,
Speaker:it's kind of like, who's the real guy,
Speaker:you know?
Speaker:I remember I was at a
Speaker:Sundance ceremony here in
Speaker:Columbia and there was an elder,
Speaker:he's a Dakota elder,
Speaker:came down and he was
Speaker:leading the Sundance and it
Speaker:was his late seventies and
Speaker:in front of the whole Sundance community,
Speaker:which is about three hundred and fifty,
Speaker:four hundred people,
Speaker:he kind of started telling
Speaker:the story of how he was a
Speaker:Vietnam vet and how he went
Speaker:to Vietnam and came back
Speaker:and had to learn his
Speaker:language and start learning
Speaker:more of the ceremonial ways of life.
Speaker:And for me at the time, I think that
Speaker:you know when we move into
Speaker:these like um let's say
Speaker:spaces of light or um you
Speaker:know spiritual practices
Speaker:some of us have a majority
Speaker:of us I think all of us
Speaker:have some darkness you know
Speaker:in our lives which is a
Speaker:part of us and for me you
Speaker:know I had this kind of
Speaker:guilt like oh but I was a
Speaker:soldier you know I was at war and hearing
Speaker:this elder say the same thing of like,
Speaker:I was in Vietnam, you know, but I'm,
Speaker:I'm doing this work now.
Speaker:It kind of just something
Speaker:clicked inside of me like it's okay.
Speaker:And it was that honoring or
Speaker:forgiving yourself and
Speaker:understanding like we all make mistakes.
Speaker:beauty of of these paths is
Speaker:that we can we have a new
Speaker:day every day is a new day
Speaker:and we have the opportunity
Speaker:to do good you know and the
Speaker:creator loves us either way
Speaker:you know like it's
Speaker:unconditional love it's not
Speaker:conditional and the creator
Speaker:spirit is always there to
Speaker:protect us and guide us so
Speaker:um you know a lot of us
Speaker:carry shame and resentment
Speaker:and guilt and anger and
Speaker:fear and frustration and
Speaker:you know we it's our choice
Speaker:you know if we want to keep
Speaker:holding that or at any
Speaker:moment we can just let it go and
Speaker:start a new day.
Speaker:The sun rises.
Speaker:It's a new day.
Speaker:It's a new opportunity to
Speaker:start again and be better.
Speaker:I love that.
Speaker:One of my favorite songs to
Speaker:inspire me is Max Frost's Good Morning.
Speaker:The phrase is,
Speaker:today is the first day of
Speaker:the rest of your life.
Speaker:Right.
Speaker:Wake up every morning and
Speaker:it's it's literally the
Speaker:beginning of the rest of your life.
Speaker:Every single day you get to
Speaker:you get to move through that.
Speaker:And I think that's a really
Speaker:important piece here is, you know,
Speaker:these plant medicines,
Speaker:these other ways like you
Speaker:can talk breath work and
Speaker:holotropic breath work and
Speaker:sound healing and meditation.
Speaker:There's so many different
Speaker:ways that we can unlock this.
Speaker:letting go this like release
Speaker:of all these things because
Speaker:that's really what it is
Speaker:these are tools to allow us
Speaker:to do what we do and and
Speaker:there's this beautiful like
Speaker:I almost look it's like the
Speaker:the I've I've spoken to
Speaker:this on this podcast but
Speaker:there's kind of like this
Speaker:venn diagram it's like you
Speaker:have the healer you have
Speaker:the medicine and then you
Speaker:have you and like right in
Speaker:the middle is where the
Speaker:magic is because we all
Speaker:they're all playing a part they
Speaker:The healer isn't just
Speaker:healing you and the medicine.
Speaker:And you're not just a
Speaker:participant in just the ceremony.
Speaker:It's like all of it comes
Speaker:together to allow us to
Speaker:unlock the things we're
Speaker:supposed to do in ourselves, right?
Speaker:This is why they connect
Speaker:with nature because it's
Speaker:just good medicine for our humanity,
Speaker:right?
Speaker:It's like, oh,
Speaker:it automatically connects you.
Speaker:It's like a shortcut.
Speaker:Like you don't have to worry
Speaker:about because it's gonna happen, right?
Speaker:You're gonna connect with
Speaker:nature if you allow it to.
Speaker:And I love that part that you just said,
Speaker:like,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:it is our choice whether we want
Speaker:to hold on to this stuff
Speaker:forever or whether we want to release it.
Speaker:And when I think in my own
Speaker:journey is like when you
Speaker:make that decision,
Speaker:like it's kind of like the
Speaker:same thing when you go on.
Speaker:I call it for me,
Speaker:it's the second mountain of life.
Speaker:It's like I had all the
Speaker:success in the world and
Speaker:all the outside stuff.
Speaker:And then all of a sudden you
Speaker:get to this time in your
Speaker:life where you're like, is this it?
Speaker:Is this all I'm going to have?
Speaker:Like,
Speaker:What is my purpose here?
Speaker:I'm sick and tired of
Speaker:feeling sick and tired.
Speaker:And then all of a sudden you
Speaker:make this real decision.
Speaker:And that decision really is with yourself,
Speaker:I think, right?
Speaker:I'm not going to... It's not like I'm mad,
Speaker:but when you get to the
Speaker:courage and you get up to that space,
Speaker:it becomes...
Speaker:And when you hang around
Speaker:these circles enough with people,
Speaker:it really is all about
Speaker:unconditional love.
Speaker:That's what we're here on
Speaker:this planet to experience.
Speaker:And that's my ultimate
Speaker:intention to become.
Speaker:I want to love
Speaker:unconditionally all the time.
Speaker:That's my version of enlightenment.
Speaker:And getting up to that space
Speaker:because we get to serve at
Speaker:our highest levels.
Speaker:And
Speaker:We, my friend always tells me just,
Speaker:he keeps reframing.
Speaker:He says, Josh, you get to,
Speaker:you get to do these things.
Speaker:It's not, I need to, I it's like, no,
Speaker:I get to go on this journey.
Speaker:I get to keep releasing and
Speaker:surrendering to the moment,
Speaker:to the present moment and
Speaker:and releasing these things that, like,
Speaker:for me,
Speaker:holding on to this stuff that's
Speaker:trapped in there, you know, PTSD,
Speaker:and any kind of, you know,
Speaker:trauma or experience,
Speaker:doesn't have to be labeled as a trauma,
Speaker:but any of these experiences, like,
Speaker:we get to move through them now.
Speaker:Like, the path forward is through.
Speaker:And thank you for, you know,
Speaker:reframing that for people,
Speaker:because I think we all have this...
Speaker:innate ability inside us to
Speaker:do it and I think these
Speaker:tools are they're really
Speaker:just what they are they're
Speaker:tools hundred percent yeah
Speaker:and believing in yourself
Speaker:yeah every day I wake up
Speaker:and form a connection a
Speaker:prayer you know prayers a
Speaker:word that's kind of thrown
Speaker:around and can have like a
Speaker:religious stigma about it
Speaker:but prayer is just it's a
Speaker:connection each day and
Speaker:pray for your life pray for
Speaker:your relatives pray for the earth and
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:pray for the environment around you.
Speaker:And the more, the more you do that,
Speaker:the more connected you get
Speaker:and the more you understand that,
Speaker:you know, you,
Speaker:you are the ship navigating, you know,
Speaker:where your reality is going.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:Um, I just got to,
Speaker:I have to put this in and I
Speaker:hope you appreciate it.
Speaker:Like as we were, um,
Speaker:recording this and as we're
Speaker:talking about water protector, right.
Speaker:I live in North Carolina and
Speaker:there's a lot of wildfires
Speaker:right now in Asheville.
Speaker:Thousands of acres are burning.
Speaker:And literally as we're doing this,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:talking about water protection and water,
Speaker:it literally downpoured.
Speaker:While I'm talking to a water
Speaker:protector and we're talking
Speaker:about this vibe and I had
Speaker:such this concern and I
Speaker:made it like I'm driving
Speaker:out of Asheville the other
Speaker:day and you can smell it and see it.
Speaker:It's like it's like and then
Speaker:it started sprinkling rain.
Speaker:I was just so grateful and
Speaker:like thanking like, you know.
Speaker:Pachamama Mother Earth like
Speaker:thank you for a little bit
Speaker:of this raid and it
Speaker:literally just down poured
Speaker:and I'm just sitting here
Speaker:smiling like thank you
Speaker:Bobby like thank you like
Speaker:like we just put some like
Speaker:good in like this water
Speaker:just did a whole lot of
Speaker:good for for my my earth
Speaker:and my my not mine but like
Speaker:my the place that's sacred
Speaker:to me so I thought you
Speaker:didn't I thought you'd
Speaker:enjoy that because it was
Speaker:pretty that was pretty
Speaker:freaking cool yeah that's incredible
Speaker:So I don't know.
Speaker:Is there is there anything
Speaker:that anything else like as
Speaker:we wrap this stuff up?
Speaker:You know,
Speaker:we know where people can go to
Speaker:learn more about this.
Speaker:What about your what about
Speaker:the stuff that what's
Speaker:coming up next for you?
Speaker:I'm doing more integration work online.
Speaker:So you can find me on Instagram.
Speaker:So you do some interview.
Speaker:So people need to find out
Speaker:like more about this,
Speaker:especially with like veterans,
Speaker:I think is super key.
Speaker:Cause like,
Speaker:it's so good to have this like versus like,
Speaker:like attracts like, right?
Speaker:And you've been there.
Speaker:So you have this ultimate
Speaker:empathetic connection to
Speaker:helping others in the way
Speaker:and manner in which you can.
Speaker:For me, I'm a cancer survivor.
Speaker:And for some reason,
Speaker:as I move through my
Speaker:journey and moving into
Speaker:energy and plant medicines
Speaker:and all these other places,
Speaker:it's like I'm finding all these
Speaker:cancer patients and cancer
Speaker:warriors just starting to
Speaker:fall in into place because
Speaker:I feel like I'm here to
Speaker:help that and I think
Speaker:people can really be served
Speaker:well through especially
Speaker:with veterans on the
Speaker:integration space so they
Speaker:can find you and you
Speaker:connect with them on
Speaker:Instagram right yeah I do
Speaker:integration with with
Speaker:anyone that needs right yeah um
Speaker:yeah, on the ground here in Columbia, um,
Speaker:yeah,
Speaker:working on some things for future
Speaker:kind of retreats with, uh,
Speaker:with veterans and, um, yeah,
Speaker:just supporting the elders
Speaker:and continuing on with the sub stack.
Speaker:That's kind of where I'm at at the moment,
Speaker:just kind of anchoring back
Speaker:into being in the beautiful
Speaker:land of Columbia.
Speaker:I love it.
Speaker:I can't wait.
Speaker:Uh, I told you earlier, like it's,
Speaker:it's on my checklist.
Speaker:I'm moving down the Americas, you know,
Speaker:Chile, Columbia, they've been,
Speaker:I've been getting the breadcrumbs.
Speaker:You got to go there now.
Speaker:These are the places you need to go.
Speaker:I'm sure we'll be hanging
Speaker:out relatively soon.
Speaker:Part of me really wants to
Speaker:journey the world and learn
Speaker:from these amazing people.
Speaker:elders and these these
Speaker:places because they are to
Speaker:me so very sacred.
Speaker:And we've lost that connection.
Speaker:So connection to nature,
Speaker:we talked a lot about that, like,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:there's different ways in order
Speaker:to heal and grow and doing it right.
Speaker:And I'm glad that we have
Speaker:you know, these earth keepers and these,
Speaker:you know,
Speaker:water protectors in our world in
Speaker:this modern day, like so good.
Speaker:So thank you so much for
Speaker:what you're doing.
Speaker:It's such a pleasure and
Speaker:honor to be in the same
Speaker:room with people that are just,
Speaker:the way I say it is just,
Speaker:they're doing it right, right?
Speaker:We're doing it with intention and purpose.
Speaker:And I think from my perspective,
Speaker:it's all about intention and ethics.
Speaker:and working it from that perspective.
Speaker:So Bobby,
Speaker:thank you so much for all you're doing.
Speaker:I'm really grateful for our
Speaker:new connections and friendships,
Speaker:and I can't wait to help
Speaker:cross-refer people so we
Speaker:can just keep moving in
Speaker:this place and healing the
Speaker:world one person at a time.
Speaker:So thank you so much.
Speaker:Thank you so much, Josh.
Speaker:Pleasure to be on here and to share a bit.
Speaker:Amazing.
Speaker:Another amazing episode.
Speaker:I love this one.
Speaker:Thank you so much, guys.
Speaker:Until next time, stay well.
