Episode 87

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Published on:

21st Jul 2025

#87: Leaving the System, Not the Mission: Dr. Susan Baumgaertel on Healing After Leaving Medicine

Leaving the System, Not the Mission: Dr. Susan Baumgaertel on Healing After Medicine

What if the very system you gave your life to—decades of dedication, care, and clinical excellence—became the very thing that broke your spirit? For Dr. Susan Baumgaertel, that question wasn’t theoretical. It was personal. After more than 25 years in internal medicine, Dr. B realized the cost of staying silent in a system that was no longer aligned with healing. So, she chose something radical in today’s healthcare landscape: sovereignty.

In this moving and courageous conversation, Dr. B takes us behind the curtain of modern medicine—where consolidation, corporatization, and unchecked productivity demands are driving good clinicians out of practice and patients into despair. But instead of walking away completely, she walked toward something better. She launched myMDadvocate, a consultancy rooted in compassion, agency, and true listening. She built MenopauseMenu.com, a hub of nourishing support for women navigating the changes of midlife. She authored The Menopause Menu, a heartfelt guide that reimagines care as connection. And through it all, she reclaimed the creative, compassionate, healer within.

This episode is not just about medicine—it’s about what it means to come home to yourself. Dr. B shares practical wisdom for anyone feeling stuck or stretched thin: why sleep is sacred, how to find joy in daily rituals like walking, and the power of remembering that “no” is a full sentence. You’ll hear her reflect on burnout, moral injury, and the liberating clarity that comes when you decide to recalibrate your inner compass. Whether you’re a clinician on the edge of change or a patient desperate to be seen and heard, Dr. B’s message is universal: You’re not broken. The system is. And you have options.

Tune in to this episode of Beyond the Pills for a raw, hopeful, and deeply empowering conversation with a physician who dared to redefine what healing really means.

✨ Subscribe to Dr. B’s YouTube channel: Dr. Susan Baumgaertel

🌿 Explore her advocacy work at mymdadvocate.com

💛 Get menopause support and community at menopausemenu.com

📕 Grab her book The Menopause Menu—available on Amazon.

Let this episode be your permission slip to listen deeply, lead bravely, and live beyond the pills.

Transcript
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Welcome back to Beyond the Pills,

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where the podcast where we

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explore healing at the

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intersection of ancient

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wisdom meets modern science.

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Hello again, everybody.

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I'm your host, Josh Rimini,

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pharmacist turned healer.

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And today's guest is someone

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special who embodies the

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courage to pivot from burnout to purpose.

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Dr. Susan Baumgärtel,

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also known as Dr. B. She began her

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internal medicine practice

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in nineteen ninety six,

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working across many

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clinical roles over the years.

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But like so many of us,

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she reached a crossroads.

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And in early in twenty twenty one,

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she in response to the

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growing pressure of

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corporatized health care, she made a big,

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bold move launching her own

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independent business.

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that offers medical consultation,

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patient advocacy,

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and professional compass

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support for physicians

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seeking reinvention.

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She's the founder of Menopause Menu,

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a free online hub

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supporting women physically

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and emotionally through

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midlife transitions.

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In,

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she self-published the Menopause Menu

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and continues to speak, write,

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and advocate for change in

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how we approach both

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medicine and menopause.

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Whether you're a patient, a practitioner,

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or someone simply looking

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to navigate transformation,

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I believe this conversation

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will remind you of the

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power of reclaiming your passion,

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protecting your energy,

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and walking daily towards a

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life that feels aligned.

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Welcome, welcome, Dr. B. Oh,

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that's such a lovely intro.

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Thank you so much.

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I'm just delighted to be here.

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I love doing those because

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every time I do it,

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it's like you get to hear

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your story a little bit, right?

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And it's just like, oh, yeah,

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I do that stuff, and that's fun,

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and I do that.

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So I like to word it so we

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can just dive right in, you know?

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I get a little misty, though.

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So let's just dive in.

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You started practicing

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internal medicine in the nineties.

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Obviously things are

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drastically different this day and age.

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This is why we talk about a

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lot of these things on our podcast,

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but let's talk about your backstory.

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Let's talk a little bit

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about this and how and what

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made you pivot and

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to starting your own

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business advocate like

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there's a shift here right

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so let's talk through your

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story because I think

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people learn through story

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and let's start with that

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Yeah, well, you know,

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I think there are so many shifts in life,

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right, that everyone makes.

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And I think that when I look back,

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my early career before medicine,

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my degree was in

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architecture and urban planning.

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So I was from Seattle originally,

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grew up in Ontario, Canada, came back.

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And it was important for me

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to kind of really embrace the arts.

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My late mother was an artist,

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and so art was all around me.

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And so later on,

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we can talk about the art

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and science of medicine.

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But to me,

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that's so integral in what I do.

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And so when I started med

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school and then I went through residency,

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stayed in Seattle.

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So I hung up my shingle

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metaphorically in nineteen

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ninety six and started full

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time practice.

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And back then, internal medicine,

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we did everything.

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I did all of the hospital admissions,

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all hospital rounds.

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I did nursing home rounds.

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I took care of people.

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in their home at, in their bed dying.

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I'd had my full-time, you know,

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outpatient practice.

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So over the decades, of course,

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the advent of the hospitalists.

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And so, you know,

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most positions in primary

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care were almost, you know,

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booted out of the hospital, so to speak.

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So really my practice

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condensed and became

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exclusively outpatient.

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But the things that I really, um, uh,

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cherish were programs that

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were a little off the beaten trail.

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So I formed a program called

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Many for Change,

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and that ran for seven

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years from twenty twelve to

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twenty nineteen.

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And it's kind of tagline was, you know,

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weight management and wellness,

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but really kind of

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blossomed into a much more robust,

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holistic program.

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And so imagine working in a

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very large multi-specialty

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position owned group,

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and then be the only one

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who kind of had other people helping out.

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So I had naturopathic docs,

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acupuncturists,

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uh registered dietitian

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nutritionist psychologist

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sports physiologist someone

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who taught tai chi and

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qigong someone who you know

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taught yoga who did you

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know personal training

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workouts I had a walking

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group I had a support group

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I had monthly lectures we

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had potlucks so I had a

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recipe book I mean all

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those things kind of woven

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into this program that um

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was at the root really helping

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all people, most of them are women,

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but people who just wanted

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to live better function better.

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And this is kind of a little

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bit kind of before the

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times because this wasn't quite Yeah,

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this is I'm just thinking like,

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oh my gosh,

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this is the definition of

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integrative medicine.

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And it's like,

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Didn't really work.

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Didn't really work that way back then,

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you know?

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No.

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And, you know, I remember.

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That's so cool.

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I just going thinking back

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like into the like going

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back into the past and

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trying to visualize that

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because like literally

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that's what we're we've

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created in our pharmacy today.

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Right.

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This is way back like when

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you're talking integrative

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and you're seeing results, obviously.

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Right.

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Because that's why you built the thing.

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Oh, you know, and,

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and dare I become scientific for a moment,

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but you know, we tracked metrics.

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Of course we did.

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You know, one metric is weight.

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Yeah, of course.

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You know, one would be waist measurement.

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One would be BMI and that's

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kind of fallen off the

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wagon in terms of more validity.

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But I tracked so many things

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that there were biochemical,

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like what their A one C, you know,

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if they're pre-diabetic or diabetic,

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you know, what their cholesterol,

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lipid panels,

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what their inflammation levels were.

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But I also tracked, um,

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how they felt, how they function,

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what their energy was like,

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what their mood was like,

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what their sleep was like,

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what their movement was like.

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And so I had lots of data.

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And I think that's where, interestingly,

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because when I started all this,

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I think a lot of my colleagues were like,

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what is she doing?

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But then they would see patients,

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perhaps specialists,

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because I'm in primary care,

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and they would say, wow,

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that's interesting.

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And never once did I wag my finger and say,

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oh, get off your medicines.

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Medicines are evil.

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but it was a very natural

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progression that I was

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famous for getting people

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off their meds because you

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know there's it doesn't

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mean that medications are

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are not necessary but it

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was so nice to blend it all

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together and so that was

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one kind of proud feather

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in my cap that I still

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really think about quite

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fondly well I love that

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because I I've gone through

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that journey as well as a pharmacist like

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it's not that medications aren't necessary,

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right?

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It's,

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but there are a lot that are unnecessary,

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but how do you make them

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unnecessary is the real question, right?

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It's your diet and lifestyle.

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And when you,

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when you actually put that in

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the forefront of the health,

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not in the back burner,

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You actually get results, right?

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And this is something that

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we were still teaching provider.

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I just did it.

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Practitioners.

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I know you don't like the word provider.

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We want to talk about that.

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Is

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why is it still not

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mainstream I guess that's

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the question I want to know

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why why we know that

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lifestyle education is

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empowering and it is really

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really beneficial but we're

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not teaching it in our settings as a

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standard of care I guess I'm

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trying to get to you like

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how you got to where you

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are but I just it makes

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sense like I'm teaching

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this now you were teaching

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this so long ago and I'm

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still trying to force feed

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pharmacists and other

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practitioners that have

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been trained it's like can

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you ask them about their

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stress level before you go

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all the way down to the

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blah blah you know

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Well, you know,

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I think this is probably a

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truth for so many things in life,

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you have to meet people where they're at.

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And not just the patient,

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but other people around you

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that are helping care for that patient,

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or maybe family members, even, you know,

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and so it's there,

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the parallels are distinct, you know,

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the analogy in the in the

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field of menopause care and

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menopause medicine is nowadays, like,

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dare I say the word hormone, because, oh,

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Everyone is like, kind of, sorry,

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Oprah's like, everyone gets car,

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everyone gets hormones, you know,

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and there's absolutely

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nothing wrong with hormones.

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Oh, my God,

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we're kind of debunking this

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ancient women's health

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initiative data that

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actually was harmful.

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Modern use of hormones is

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absolutely essential in so many ways.

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But guess what?

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We can also do so many

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things that have nothing to

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do with a prescription to

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help women in this phase.

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But you have to meet this

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individual woman right in

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front of you where she's at,

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because you can't sit there and preach,

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either preach about

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medicines or preach about holistic care,

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because you don't know what

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makes them tick.

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You don't know what they're

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going to respond to.

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And so you can kind of nudge

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that needle a little bit,

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because maybe they haven't

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heard about other things that, you know,

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So I think it's a partnership.

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It's a dialogue.

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It's listening.

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It's respecting and honoring

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and being kind.

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It's compassionate care.

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It's all of that.

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And I think, honestly,

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we live in this fast paced,

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follow the money, click the boxes, boom,

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boom, boom, boom, boom.

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Next patient, next patient.

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And sadly,

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I have so many colleagues who

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probably agree with what I just all said,

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but they're too freaking busy.

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You know, the pressures on them, you know,

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and I will blame just the

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modern health care environment,

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which is which is just

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completely broken in this country.

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And you can't possibly sit

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down and talk to a patient

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about all those nuanced

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things in a ten minute visit.

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It's never going to happen.

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So I think there's, there's so many,

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you know, appealing about the layer,

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just so many reasons for

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why this is not necessarily embraced.

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It's not like people don't believe in it.

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Um,

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but then dare I go on this little

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slippery slope where we have, um,

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You know,

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people went to outsource and

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crowdsource their health

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care and listen to the influencers and,

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you know, get their snake oil,

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this and that.

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It's just, you know,

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it's sad because if we

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could just pull it back in

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a grounded way to this very

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intimate and I'm a doctor,

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so a doctor patient relationship.

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that is the here and the now.

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And that's how you connect with someone.

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And that's how you give someone care.

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And I just think there has

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to be more of that.

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Yeah, I'm, I love that.

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You know, I love

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talking to you know doctors

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and other practitioners be

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in this space because what

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you said is t capital truth

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right when you establish a

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connection and you're

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empathic like they've done

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studies to show the doctor

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that just checks the boxes

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and gives the script to the

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person that's sick versus

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the doctor that sits next to them

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holds their hand, looks them in the eye.

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They actually have done

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studies to show that those

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people without the

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prescription get better faster.

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Well, here's a caveat.

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We know that this stuff is real.

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And yes,

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I don't think doctors or patients

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or people will disagree,

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but I feel like we have a

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place to start this conversation.

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in a new way right like to

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stab this is why the cash

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model is really important

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right now because the payer

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system isn't caught up to

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that right ten minutes ten

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minutes six minutes six

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minutes this this this

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check the boxes go but you

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know with technology

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brewing and all these other

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things it's like the the

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human connection we've done

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we've done a whole podcast

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just on connection and like

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where that lies in the

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medical model of what we have today,

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but also the future.

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Well,

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and a caveat to what you said a

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moment ago is they have

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done the proverbial way.

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They have done studies

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looking at the perception

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of time spent in the exam room.

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And you can take a physician

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who is listening, the laptop's closed,

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they're making eye contact,

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they're engaged, and they're listening,

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allowing a lot of time,

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not cutting someone off.

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And that patient may have

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only been in that room for

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like five minutes,

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but they feel like they had

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the most amazing, engaging care.

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They love their doctor, et cetera,

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et cetera.

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Well, contrast that to someone who,

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you know,

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is spending forty minutes with a patient.

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That's far more than five minutes.

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And then.

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patient leaves the room and say, well,

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you know, I never had time for my issues.

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They didn't really let me finish.

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And I, you know,

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I didn't get a chance to

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really go over things that

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I really want to talk about.

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And that person, you know,

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that doctor is not very good.

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So, I mean, it sounds insane,

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but the perception of time is,

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Five minutes is infinitely

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shorter than forty minutes.

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Yet that five minute was

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such an amazing interaction.

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So I just think there has to

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be more of that parsed out

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and to tell people like, yeah,

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you don't have to like the

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reality is very few doctors

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are going to have forty

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minute slots all day long.

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you know the the dollar

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bills are not gonna be

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coming into their their um

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administrative office and

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sadly uh unless it's like a

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new patient physical with a

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whole bunch of other things

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going on or they have a

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cancellation that they just

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don't have that time but

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the perception of time you

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can make it more than than

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what people are all right

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well that's that's

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truth, right?

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It's like reality is perception, right?

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And it goes back to the same

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thing of like co-creation, right?

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We're co-creating this plan.

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We're empowering the person

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to take charge in their own

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healthcare and not have the

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doctor for forty minutes

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tell you what's wrong with you, right?

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And move it through the whole thing.

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But it's so...

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What I'm coming up with is

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it's the same adage.

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People want to be seen, heard,

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and understood.

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I've had more testimonials

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on my side of things when I...

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I say because when my my

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when we do cash wellness

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and things like that we do

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an hour with the patient

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right and then I after that

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session they go no one's

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ever sat down with me where

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I can go through my story I

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get more out of that

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personally and through

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outcomes just because they

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were heard right and that's

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what starts I feel this is

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the difference between transactional

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like symptom management

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versus true healing, right?

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When we're talking down this path.

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And I think that I'm glad

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that you kind of flowered

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that up and open that up

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because it is so important.

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Let's you, you open the door.

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So I want to go here now is the,

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let's talk about menopause.

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You went there because I

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think it's really crucial.

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And yes, we are debunking why, like,

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Hormones good, hormones bad,

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hormones this.

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But let's talk about the

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menopause menu and what

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inspired you to build this community,

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write the book.

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And let's talk about those

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non-prescriptive things.

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Because I, too, am in the same boat.

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Like, when I do a hormone consult,

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it's not like hormones, yes, hormones,

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no.

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It's which path is best for

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you as we inform you on these things.

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And let's talk about some of

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the things non-hormonal,

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that replacement or

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restoration that we can do right now.

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Right?

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People just don't think there.

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They just...

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I I do compounding I do a

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lot of good hormones and we

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do it right but I I still

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think there's a ton to talk

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about outside of just the

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prescription in this realm

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and I know you're super

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passionate about it and

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there's there's a lot of

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this going on right now so

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I kind of wanted to spend

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some time and energy into this

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Yeah.

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So after twenty five years,

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I pivoted that great big P word pivoted,

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left my big practice that

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was quite robust.

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I think I was two and a half docs and one.

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So they saw a lot of dollar

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bills walking out the door there.

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Um, I slept for a few weeks,

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regained my sanity, my creativity, um,

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my passion, my human focus.

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And, um, I had already developed a website,

Speaker:

uh, menopause, many.com, uh,

Speaker:

before I left.

Speaker:

And so then I kind of put

Speaker:

more energy and effort into it.

Speaker:

And it really was something

Speaker:

that I just was so

Speaker:

passionate about because.

Speaker:

over the decades I took care

Speaker:

of quite a few patients

Speaker:

obviously many of them

Speaker:

women and many of them

Speaker:

going through menopause and

Speaker:

um dare I say the word

Speaker:

gaslight because you know

Speaker:

it's maybe overused but

Speaker:

honestly I think women have

Speaker:

been gaslit so many times

Speaker:

uh they're they're gun shy

Speaker:

because you know I can I

Speaker:

cannot tell you how many

Speaker:

times a woman might come in

Speaker:

and say like oh my gosh

Speaker:

I saw my whatever, whatever specialist.

Speaker:

It's like, you know,

Speaker:

they told me I'm just a

Speaker:

little stressed out.

Speaker:

It's like, well, you're forty eight.

Speaker:

You're having some hot

Speaker:

flashes and night sweats.

Speaker:

Your sleep sucks.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

your relationship is kind of a

Speaker:

little rocky.

Speaker:

Your kids are, you know,

Speaker:

ones you're rapidly

Speaker:

becoming an empty nester.

Speaker:

And and your periods are

Speaker:

starting to fall off like, oh, yeah,

Speaker:

like you're in perimenopause.

Speaker:

Like, no, you're not.

Speaker:

It's not.

Speaker:

You can't just write this off as like, oh,

Speaker:

you know, go do some yoga.

Speaker:

That is not going to help.

Speaker:

So hormones can be absolutely vital.

Speaker:

for women in many different ways.

Speaker:

And sadly, they've been told,

Speaker:

we've been told as physicians, you know,

Speaker:

oh,

Speaker:

dangerous breast cancer is going to

Speaker:

cause blood clots and

Speaker:

stroke and cirrhosis and the things that,

Speaker:

of course,

Speaker:

who had no one in the right

Speaker:

minds would want.

Speaker:

But we've now embraced a lot

Speaker:

of good new data talking

Speaker:

about ways to reduce risk

Speaker:

for heart disease,

Speaker:

reduce risk for osteoporosis,

Speaker:

reduce your what they call

Speaker:

general urinary syndrome of

Speaker:

menopause and vaginal

Speaker:

dryness and urinary

Speaker:

frequency and maybe libido is crashing.

Speaker:

And there's so many other things,

Speaker:

of course, hot flashes,

Speaker:

night sweats and sleep disruption.

Speaker:

So all those things can be

Speaker:

absolutely benefited by

Speaker:

in taking hormones in some women,

Speaker:

and in many women,

Speaker:

but it's not ever just black and white,

Speaker:

all or none, yes, no, you know, it's,

Speaker:

it's yes, and right, it's, it's,

Speaker:

how can we blend that with, oh,

Speaker:

there are ways to like surf the wave,

Speaker:

you know, when it comes to

Speaker:

when it comes to predicting

Speaker:

a hot flash you know how

Speaker:

you can kind of navigate

Speaker:

that not necessarily rip

Speaker:

your clothes off you know

Speaker:

or maybe you're having

Speaker:

spicy food or maybe you're

Speaker:

having too much hot food or

Speaker:

exercising before bed or

Speaker:

you're doing things that

Speaker:

maybe you're provoking this

Speaker:

a little bit and so you can

Speaker:

kind of start to chill and

Speaker:

and recognize there are

Speaker:

things you can do that you

Speaker:

can empower yourself to change

Speaker:

you know, sleep.

Speaker:

Oh, you could talk about sleep for hours.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

there are ways to improve the

Speaker:

sleep dynamic.

Speaker:

So it's both.

Speaker:

And I think that that's

Speaker:

where the shaming has to stop.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

this is a natural time that every

Speaker:

woman goes through.

Speaker:

Some go through this phase

Speaker:

quite early if they've had

Speaker:

surgery and their ovaries

Speaker:

have been removed or they

Speaker:

have another medical

Speaker:

problem where they've had

Speaker:

cancer and chemo is like

Speaker:

screwed up their hormones.

Speaker:

So there's a lot there.

Speaker:

Again,

Speaker:

come to meet someone where they're at.

Speaker:

Understand what they're interested in,

Speaker:

what what would be of good

Speaker:

service to them and their body,

Speaker:

and then teach them,

Speaker:

educate them and work with them.

Speaker:

I love it.

Speaker:

It's a.

Speaker:

And what kept resonating for

Speaker:

me is that same process of

Speaker:

when you said both and.

Speaker:

It's the art in the science.

Speaker:

You can go all the way down

Speaker:

to the labs and just

Speaker:

lather them full of hormones, but like,

Speaker:

yes,

Speaker:

all that art and all the things we

Speaker:

need to do of what, what's this is to me,

Speaker:

this is where the

Speaker:

personalization comes from.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And this is where the

Speaker:

Amazons and the chains and

Speaker:

everybody else in the world

Speaker:

can't touch the one size

Speaker:

fits all pharma thing for menopause.

Speaker:

It's like,

Speaker:

the hormones themselves are a symphony,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

We know that we need to balance them.

Speaker:

So the trumpet isn't just

Speaker:

blaring out in the, the, you know,

Speaker:

we're just moving one,

Speaker:

but at the same time, it's that art.

Speaker:

It's like, what are your,

Speaker:

how's your sleep?

Speaker:

And like,

Speaker:

how can we navigate these things

Speaker:

with nutrition and other

Speaker:

types of processes?

Speaker:

So, so that built and you've built it.

Speaker:

Now you've re you've

Speaker:

revamped it a little bit.

Speaker:

You've refreshed it.

Speaker:

Um,

Speaker:

menopause menu.com.

Speaker:

It's a, it's a free resource, right?

Speaker:

People can go there and get information.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And you know, um, under the, you know,

Speaker:

the tab at the top information,

Speaker:

there are sub pages.

Speaker:

So,

Speaker:

and each correlate with one of the more

Speaker:

common symptoms.

Speaker:

Like there's a whole page

Speaker:

that has like a million

Speaker:

things about hot flashes,

Speaker:

the whole page for, you know,

Speaker:

low libido problems,

Speaker:

a whole page for

Speaker:

musculoskeletal issues or

Speaker:

for skin issues and so on and so forth.

Speaker:

And in fact, they, um,

Speaker:

they serve the kind of

Speaker:

platform upon which I then wrote my book.

Speaker:

So my book has sixteen

Speaker:

chapters correlated with sixteen pieces.

Speaker:

And, you know,

Speaker:

it's really I think it's

Speaker:

really been fun to refresh

Speaker:

it now because like

Speaker:

I didn't have, I had a web designer.

Speaker:

He was fabulous.

Speaker:

He still is fabulous.

Speaker:

But I didn't really get as

Speaker:

much value out of this website.

Speaker:

It was kind of more just like, oh,

Speaker:

I'll just throw stuff on it

Speaker:

and people can go there as a resource.

Speaker:

Well, yeah, I can do that,

Speaker:

but that's not really,

Speaker:

people don't have the time these days.

Speaker:

So now it's refreshed.

Speaker:

And then when people subscribe,

Speaker:

they get this welcome sequence,

Speaker:

they get a free gift, they get kind of...

Speaker:

hopeful emails that really

Speaker:

uh nurture and support and

Speaker:

get them excited and I

Speaker:

think that that's been

Speaker:

that's been really nice to

Speaker:

put some energy into that

Speaker:

and my book was really one

Speaker:

of these um again get misty

Speaker:

I think about my mother uh

Speaker:

late mother was an artist

Speaker:

um I remember when I was a

Speaker:

child this is back in the

Speaker:

uh early seventies

Speaker:

I remember these big art

Speaker:

books on our coffee table.

Speaker:

It could be Renoir, Degas,

Speaker:

it could be Emily Carr,

Speaker:

it could be George O'Keefe, whatever.

Speaker:

And you open this art book.

Speaker:

I mean, it had a heft.

Speaker:

It was heavy.

Speaker:

It was big.

Speaker:

You put it in your lap.

Speaker:

And then you just randomly

Speaker:

open to a page and maybe

Speaker:

look at this beautiful

Speaker:

painting or drawing or picture and then

Speaker:

maybe read the caption or

Speaker:

something else like five

Speaker:

minutes go by and you close

Speaker:

the book you put it back in

Speaker:

the coffee table and you go

Speaker:

about your day so I wanted

Speaker:

to create a book for

Speaker:

menopause it was like that

Speaker:

kind of an art book so you

Speaker:

don't read it from cover to

Speaker:

cover I mean you could uh

Speaker:

but you could literally open it

Speaker:

get my book here you can

Speaker:

literally there's the cover

Speaker:

one of my mother's

Speaker:

paintings you could open it

Speaker:

to any chapter like I just

Speaker:

I just open randomly to

Speaker:

page it's about body image

Speaker:

and you can just read for

Speaker:

like two or three minutes

Speaker:

about body image and then

Speaker:

close it up you know and so

Speaker:

you don't have to it's not

Speaker:

a medical text it's not

Speaker:

boring but it's not dumbed

Speaker:

down it's it's actually very

Speaker:

palatable modernized good

Speaker:

information lots of

Speaker:

pictures lots of color

Speaker:

pictures recipes so I mean

Speaker:

I I like to surround myself

Speaker:

with food so there's

Speaker:

recipes in there but to me

Speaker:

that was that experiential

Speaker:

part was really important to me

Speaker:

And we learn through experience, right?

Speaker:

So when you have a book on your table,

Speaker:

like part of my self-care

Speaker:

routine is to read fifteen

Speaker:

minutes every morning and

Speaker:

read something that I'm going to,

Speaker:

you know, it's not the news.

Speaker:

It's not scrolling on my scroll of death.

Speaker:

It's not any of that.

Speaker:

It's learning something.

Speaker:

And I'm a big fan of

Speaker:

learning and learning.

Speaker:

I could spend hours every morning,

Speaker:

but at least fifteen minutes,

Speaker:

I'm doing something to grow and learn.

Speaker:

So this is like a beautiful

Speaker:

resource for just your self care.

Speaker:

It's like,

Speaker:

let's open up a tab and let's

Speaker:

see what I can just put

Speaker:

into my field of awareness today.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

One little thing,

Speaker:

one little quib that could help me.

Speaker:

And then over time it just builds.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

This is how these are,

Speaker:

how these things are

Speaker:

awesome because they build

Speaker:

over time and all of a

Speaker:

sudden you've got tools in your toolbox.

Speaker:

instead of being on the

Speaker:

sidelines of your menopause

Speaker:

and suffering and yes it's

Speaker:

it's a big deal I just had

Speaker:

a conversation with someone

Speaker:

it was either on a podcast

Speaker:

or just one of my

Speaker:

colleagues where we we

Speaker:

talked about like when when

Speaker:

a female is is coming

Speaker:

through puberty and it's

Speaker:

this big deal right we put

Speaker:

all this emphasis on

Speaker:

transitioning into womanhood and then

Speaker:

women that transition out

Speaker:

into men like there's

Speaker:

nothing there's no like big

Speaker:

deal about it it's like

Speaker:

it's like you said stuff it

Speaker:

aside it's just hot flashes

Speaker:

you can deal with it go do

Speaker:

yoga like no it's a big

Speaker:

deal this is a

Speaker:

transitionary period in people's lives

Speaker:

that we sort of forgot that

Speaker:

it's like a big deal, not just hormonal.

Speaker:

It's a life changing experience.

Speaker:

And my wife is in the middle of this,

Speaker:

you know, and it is,

Speaker:

and we are in the middle of

Speaker:

this together because it's,

Speaker:

it is a big deal.

Speaker:

And I'm glad that you,

Speaker:

you've put these resources out there.

Speaker:

You've got the book now.

Speaker:

I guess I want to say like,

Speaker:

when it comes to menopause,

Speaker:

what are you what do you

Speaker:

think is the most common

Speaker:

myths or challenges you're

Speaker:

seeing um who aren't when

Speaker:

they're not supported in a

Speaker:

system like what what is

Speaker:

the common thing I know

Speaker:

your book is going to

Speaker:

address them but like if

Speaker:

we're talking about this

Speaker:

right now you know what are

Speaker:

these common challenges and

Speaker:

myths in today's modern

Speaker:

world because I think if we

Speaker:

take the lens of

Speaker:

you know, thirty years ago,

Speaker:

it's going to be very different.

Speaker:

We were giving, you know,

Speaker:

pregnant mares horse urine

Speaker:

for for for hormones.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

Premarin.

Speaker:

Yes, that's what it stands for.

Speaker:

And we figured out it was bad.

Speaker:

Like, so we're not there.

Speaker:

We're in the modernized world.

Speaker:

I know emulsion testosterone

Speaker:

therapies now like we have

Speaker:

the modernized stuff.

Speaker:

But in your in your eyes,

Speaker:

because you've been dealing

Speaker:

with this and helping people for so long,

Speaker:

what do you think the

Speaker:

challenges people are

Speaker:

seeing in the

Speaker:

misconceptions or myths right now?

Speaker:

Oh, there's so many.

Speaker:

And the first thing I wanted to mention,

Speaker:

which is kind of partially

Speaker:

an answer to your question,

Speaker:

is you mentioned your wife.

Speaker:

Like one of my taglines is

Speaker:

everyone knows someone

Speaker:

going through menopause.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And so one of the misconceptions like, oh,

Speaker:

I'm male, so it doesn't apply to me.

Speaker:

It's like, yep.

Speaker:

If you know a woman,

Speaker:

then it does apply to you.

Speaker:

You know, if you have a mother, an aunt,

Speaker:

a wife, a daughter, your sister.

Speaker:

And so so this kind of myth like, oh,

Speaker:

that's a woman's thing.

Speaker:

Like, no, it's an everyone's thing.

Speaker:

So that's the first kind of, you know,

Speaker:

thing to really recognize.

Speaker:

I do feel like we're we're.

Speaker:

Thankfully,

Speaker:

in an era where it's it's

Speaker:

easier to talk about things.

Speaker:

Oh, my God,

Speaker:

there's so many taboo subjects

Speaker:

in the past.

Speaker:

You would never say a word about a vagina.

Speaker:

You would never say a word

Speaker:

about your bladder problems.

Speaker:

You ever say a word about

Speaker:

libido or about anything like that.

Speaker:

Oh, my God, your periods, you know.

Speaker:

But now that's not taboo to talk about.

Speaker:

And it's it's validating,

Speaker:

especially if women don't

Speaker:

feel shame that they bring it up.

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

what better than in a private place,

Speaker:

especially in closed door

Speaker:

and they're there with

Speaker:

their doctor in their exam

Speaker:

room to bring up things

Speaker:

that are very sensitive or

Speaker:

maybe they're embarrassed

Speaker:

by or they're just kind of

Speaker:

don't even really know where to start.

Speaker:

And so so allowing that

Speaker:

space to talk about things,

Speaker:

I think we're really well

Speaker:

ahead of where we used to be.

Speaker:

I feel like, though, that there, sadly,

Speaker:

this extrapolates into

Speaker:

almost anything in the healthcare field,

Speaker:

but certainly when it comes to menopause.

Speaker:

The...

Speaker:

the kind of trickery that's

Speaker:

afoot the um the

Speaker:

misstatements uh or flat

Speaker:

out lies from many

Speaker:

influencers or folks who

Speaker:

are just trying to sell

Speaker:

things uh you can get

Speaker:

anything online nowadays I

Speaker:

mean almost uh and where do

Speaker:

women turn to get valid information

Speaker:

How do they know that, you know,

Speaker:

if their cousin or best

Speaker:

friend or their colleague at work, like,

Speaker:

oh, I did this, try this.

Speaker:

Like,

Speaker:

is that the best way to get health

Speaker:

information?

Speaker:

Maybe, maybe not.

Speaker:

You know, if they read something,

Speaker:

cause everyone's on their phones,

Speaker:

you know, I mean, if the

Speaker:

There's an app for all that.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

is that where they go to Facebook

Speaker:

or whatever, Instagram?

Speaker:

And is that where they get

Speaker:

the information from?

Speaker:

Maybe, maybe not.

Speaker:

You know, so we've gotten into this very,

Speaker:

very,

Speaker:

very different dynamic in terms of

Speaker:

how information is imparted

Speaker:

and how we share information.

Speaker:

And I'm not going to bring

Speaker:

politics into discussion, but.

Speaker:

In our current very

Speaker:

polarized world that we

Speaker:

live in now in this country,

Speaker:

there's mistrust.

Speaker:

There's, oh,

Speaker:

that doctor's just trying to

Speaker:

make some money.

Speaker:

I'm just going to follow

Speaker:

what this influencer says.

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

that is kind of the worst case scenario.

Speaker:

So I think that we have to

Speaker:

ground ourselves in the

Speaker:

things I've already said,

Speaker:

like I'm going to

Speaker:

and blue in the face,

Speaker:

saying it all over again.

Speaker:

Where is this person from?

Speaker:

What resonates with them?

Speaker:

How can we show them, tell them,

Speaker:

help them understand information better?

Speaker:

One great example,

Speaker:

and this is going to maybe

Speaker:

cause friction in some areas,

Speaker:

is checking blood levels.

Speaker:

So you don't need to check a blood test

Speaker:

to understand if a woman's

Speaker:

going through menopause.

Speaker:

You don't.

Speaker:

It's like, great example.

Speaker:

You don't check your

Speaker:

thirteen year old or twelve

Speaker:

year old or whatever year old to say,

Speaker:

oh yeah,

Speaker:

blood test says they're going

Speaker:

through puberty.

Speaker:

You don't.

Speaker:

You know they're going through puberty.

Speaker:

So you don't need a blood

Speaker:

test for the vast majority

Speaker:

of women who are going

Speaker:

through perimenopause.

Speaker:

Now, there are exceptions, of course,

Speaker:

to anything.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

if you're thirty two and your

Speaker:

periods are hit and miss, like, oh,

Speaker:

my God,

Speaker:

need a whole bunch of blood tests.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

if you're sixty one and you have spotting,

Speaker:

oh, my God, that's like the worst thing.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

you probably need more than a blood test.

Speaker:

You need an ultrasound and an exam.

Speaker:

So but but for the vast

Speaker:

majority of women who are

Speaker:

in their mid to late

Speaker:

forties or early fifties or

Speaker:

mid fifties and they have a

Speaker:

lot of things going on,

Speaker:

there's no blood test that's needed.

Speaker:

And consequently,

Speaker:

and here's the controversial part,

Speaker:

you don't need to follow levels.

Speaker:

It's like, again, the puberty example,

Speaker:

when they're twelve, thirteen, fourteen,

Speaker:

fifteen, sixteen.

Speaker:

You're not checking levels again.

Speaker:

You know.

Speaker:

They've gone through puberty, you know,

Speaker:

and you know,

Speaker:

you don't adjust the

Speaker:

hormones to get a certain

Speaker:

level because those levels

Speaker:

change circadian rhythm day and night.

Speaker:

They change week to week, you know,

Speaker:

they change.

Speaker:

So, so there's so much, sadly,

Speaker:

misinformation out there in

Speaker:

the big worldwide web about like, Ooh,

Speaker:

get your levels and follow your levels.

Speaker:

It's just not valid.

Speaker:

It's not evidence-based.

Speaker:

And so that's where I think

Speaker:

women and men need to watch

Speaker:

their wallets.

Speaker:

I mean,

Speaker:

you can just spend so much money on

Speaker:

stuff that is not supporting you.

Speaker:

That's two good points that

Speaker:

I want to talk about.

Speaker:

One is, like you said,

Speaker:

don't follow the doctor,

Speaker:

follow the influencer.

Speaker:

And for me, obviously,

Speaker:

you need some level of authority.

Speaker:

And when I say that, it's

Speaker:

You've learned it.

Speaker:

You've experienced your professional,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

Professionals have gone

Speaker:

through certain trainings

Speaker:

in order to be able to

Speaker:

speak to these things.

Speaker:

And there's this gray area

Speaker:

in wellness where...

Speaker:

you can take the cannabis industry,

Speaker:

the psychedelic industry,

Speaker:

the supplement industry.

Speaker:

There's this area where

Speaker:

you're not like you or me

Speaker:

where we've dedicated lots

Speaker:

of hours into this.

Speaker:

Probably could write a PhD

Speaker:

on it by the time we're done.

Speaker:

And then all of a sudden

Speaker:

you've got someone that's just like,

Speaker:

let's just talk about this

Speaker:

supplement and go on the internet.

Speaker:

So I think having a trusted

Speaker:

guide that you know, like,

Speaker:

and trust is always key.

Speaker:

And, you know,

Speaker:

I think there's something to

Speaker:

be said around, you know,

Speaker:

so there is something to be

Speaker:

said around credentials.

Speaker:

And we're talking both and here.

Speaker:

And, you know,

Speaker:

there's also like this part

Speaker:

where you've lived this experience,

Speaker:

you've gone through it yourself.

Speaker:

kind of process that I talk a lot,

Speaker:

a lot of practitioners around is like,

Speaker:

they've gone through their

Speaker:

journey and they want to

Speaker:

now feel compelled to help people.

Speaker:

I don't like the word

Speaker:

influencer because if I

Speaker:

have to be influenced to

Speaker:

follow you or influenced to

Speaker:

buy something from you,

Speaker:

that means it wasn't really

Speaker:

in my own resonance, right?

Speaker:

If somebody feels it,

Speaker:

And then it's kind of like

Speaker:

I'm trusting more and more

Speaker:

of this than this and

Speaker:

blending the two together.

Speaker:

And this is part of what I

Speaker:

love to do is teaching men

Speaker:

to go from here to here

Speaker:

because there is some part

Speaker:

of that that's real and

Speaker:

that the science is catching up to.

Speaker:

So I'm glad you brought that part up.

Speaker:

um trust trusted source and

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professional means we have

Speaker:

some level you know you're

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an MD you're talking about

Speaker:

this on a high level of the

Speaker:

science but also that art

Speaker:

that we talked it's that

Speaker:

merging of the two that's

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why I say ancient wisdom

Speaker:

meets modern science because it's both

Speaker:

And then I love how you went

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down to the simplistic

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route because all the

Speaker:

things we talk about is how

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can we make it simpler?

Speaker:

How can we make this simple?

Speaker:

Like even your book and like

Speaker:

revamping your website into

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bite-sized pieces so people

Speaker:

can absorb them in this day

Speaker:

and age where we're super busy.

Speaker:

Just read one page.

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But if you read one page,

Speaker:

age for thirty days,

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you've read a good amount

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and had a lot of knowledge.

Speaker:

So those are simplistic.

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Always resonates with me.

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Like wellness made simple is like,

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are you nailing the easy stuff first?

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So that's where I think we

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are moving towards.

Speaker:

And I think I'm talking more

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about that in these things.

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I do want the my MD advocate.

Speaker:

Oh, my Internet's getting slow again.

Speaker:

And burnout, right?

Speaker:

Practitioner burnout and

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those kind of things.

Speaker:

You speak really powerfully

Speaker:

about moral injury and burnout.

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So for you, what were the signs and...

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And how did you move through that?

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Like,

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this is a real big topic of

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conversation that we're having a lot,

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especially as it relates to

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the healthcare field,

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because I'm really

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passionate about this subject too.

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How do we help these

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beautiful people in the

Speaker:

healthcare field that are

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experiencing their own

Speaker:

levels of burnout and unhealth, right?

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

So I want to talk a little bit about this.

Speaker:

And you blipped out there,

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so I'm just assuming I'll

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be talking right now.

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Interrupt me if I misheard.

Speaker:

No, you're good.

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I don't really think I was burned out.

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I was facing moral injury head on.

Speaker:

And there's a distinct difference.

Speaker:

There's so many people in

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different fields and

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different walks of life

Speaker:

that have been burned out.

Speaker:

Pandemic, of course,

Speaker:

didn't help any of that.

Speaker:

It could be someone who's

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working in all the

Speaker:

different service industries.

Speaker:

It could be restaurant workers.

Speaker:

It could be librarians.

Speaker:

It could be teachers.

Speaker:

So it's not just a health care phenomenon.

Speaker:

But the moral injury part

Speaker:

was my, I can't cross this line.

Speaker:

And it really kind of, there's so much to,

Speaker:

I could talk for hours,

Speaker:

but there's so much behind that.

Speaker:

And really kind of what I

Speaker:

would distill it down to is that,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

there's a calling when you come

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into medicine.

Speaker:

The truest part of it is

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you're coming in to serve.

Speaker:

You're coming in to help people,

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help human beings,

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hopefully help heal them or

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diagnose them and help them heal.

Speaker:

And there's an intimacy with that.

Speaker:

And the corporatization of

Speaker:

our health industry has

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kind of sliced and diced

Speaker:

that in so many ways that are negative.

Speaker:

And then there's this what's

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called healthcare consolidation,

Speaker:

where we have upwards of

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almost eighty percent of

Speaker:

all physicians now working

Speaker:

for big corporations.

Speaker:

And what do big corporations do?

Speaker:

They care about the bottom line,

Speaker:

good old dollar bills.

Speaker:

They care about their investors.

Speaker:

They care about the markets.

Speaker:

And that is the absolute

Speaker:

polar opposite of what most of us,

Speaker:

and I'll talk about myself

Speaker:

because I can't talk about other people,

Speaker:

but that's the exact

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opposite of why I went into medicine.

Speaker:

So there's a huge disconnect

Speaker:

at the end of the day when

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you're box checking and

Speaker:

you're just filling out

Speaker:

metrics and you want your

Speaker:

little stupid bonus because

Speaker:

you have to do X, Y, and Z.

Speaker:

And that is not caring for people anymore.

Speaker:

And so that was one of the big like, yeah,

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I'm out of here.

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And my story is probably

Speaker:

best told in a bar with a drink.

Speaker:

But truthfully,

Speaker:

I think I tossed hand grenades as I left.

Speaker:

I mean, it was just kind of like,

Speaker:

got to get out of here.

Speaker:

And I'm really glad because

Speaker:

I got my sanity together.

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And I, as I created my business,

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my MD advocate,

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I did the best thing I

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could have ever done accidentally.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

like I didn't research how to

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start a business law.

Speaker:

I kind of did a little bit,

Speaker:

but I didn't go to business school.

Speaker:

I was a doctor.

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I am a doctor.

Speaker:

What I did, this is during the pandemic,

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was I had two online Zoom

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focus groups with former patients.

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And twenty five each of the

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fifty patients.

Speaker:

And I pressed record and I said,

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this will never see the light of day.

Speaker:

I'm just recording just so I

Speaker:

can watch it later and take

Speaker:

notes because it's hard to

Speaker:

like take notes when you're

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talking and interacting.

Speaker:

And so I had a little five

Speaker:

minute spiel and I just let let her rip.

Speaker:

And then people would, of course, happen.

Speaker:

It's like, oh, Dr. B,

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it's so great to see you.

Speaker:

It's like, oh, I love you, too.

Speaker:

But what would you like to

Speaker:

see in any business?

Speaker:

You know, it's just like this love fest.

Speaker:

And I listened and I learned.

Speaker:

I learned price points.

Speaker:

I learned, like,

Speaker:

whether they'd feel

Speaker:

comfortable or not doing

Speaker:

telemedicine only.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

all these different things that

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helped kind of shape and

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mold what I was going to do.

Speaker:

Fast forward to now, I can really be...

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very satisfied because my

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business is kind of an

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advocacy and medical

Speaker:

consultation business.

Speaker:

So I'm still an MD.

Speaker:

I keep my title.

Speaker:

I pay my dues and all that.

Speaker:

I have my license.

Speaker:

But I can listen.

Speaker:

I have the time.

Speaker:

I can kind of talk about

Speaker:

things that a lot of people

Speaker:

don't get support,

Speaker:

like how to navigate medical systems,

Speaker:

how to find doctors.

Speaker:

I'm not a doctor finder, but sure,

Speaker:

I can help people.

Speaker:

I've been doing that my whole profession,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

like how to get a good cardiologist,

Speaker:

how to get a good whateverologist.

Speaker:

And then people who are just, you know,

Speaker:

not sure about how to proceed.

Speaker:

And here's a great example,

Speaker:

because early on,

Speaker:

I was a little concerned about like, gosh,

Speaker:

are my colleagues going to

Speaker:

feel threatened?

Speaker:

Like, what is Susan doing?

Speaker:

Like, this is, you know,

Speaker:

is she going to look over what I'm doing?

Speaker:

But I remember this one

Speaker:

situation where someone was

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seeing a really good cardiologist,

Speaker:

and of course, they gave him a statin.

Speaker:

And this patient then saw me and said like,

Speaker:

oh, I don't want to be on the staff.

Speaker:

I said, well, let's,

Speaker:

let's start to sift through this.

Speaker:

And I have, again,

Speaker:

all the permissions to get

Speaker:

into the medical record.

Speaker:

We went through all the details of,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

kind of the thought process that

Speaker:

was instant in the cardiologist's mind,

Speaker:

but they didn't have the

Speaker:

time to talk about.

Speaker:

And I said, you know what?

Speaker:

You actually do need to be on a statin,

Speaker:

and here's why.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

and I go through all the reasons why.

Speaker:

And I said, here's what you can also do,

Speaker:

nutrition, exercise, et cetera,

Speaker:

et cetera.

Speaker:

you know, in concert.

Speaker:

And this is when you

Speaker:

probably should go back and

Speaker:

get your labs done.

Speaker:

And over time,

Speaker:

maybe you won't need quite

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so much of a dose.

Speaker:

And who knows, maybe we'll get off.

Speaker:

Maybe not again,

Speaker:

but I had a dialogue with

Speaker:

someone and they came away

Speaker:

from that meeting thinking like,

Speaker:

oh my God, thank God.

Speaker:

And what I did,

Speaker:

and I was really proud of this.

Speaker:

I said, you know,

Speaker:

you have a really good cardiologist.

Speaker:

They just didn't have the time.

Speaker:

And so I'm like this,

Speaker:

this distant team member, this kind of,

Speaker:

you know, ghost team member, you know,

Speaker:

so that person went back to

Speaker:

their appointment and was

Speaker:

doing just great and no

Speaker:

side effects and was doing fine.

Speaker:

And, you know,

Speaker:

the note stayed with me and

Speaker:

the patient because I

Speaker:

always ask if you want me

Speaker:

to forward the note and

Speaker:

they didn't want to.

Speaker:

And that's fine.

Speaker:

Totally fine.

Speaker:

Well, you know,

Speaker:

that's one person I helped.

Speaker:

I'm super happy with that.

Speaker:

Well, that's, again, you touched on it.

Speaker:

And I asked pharmacy,

Speaker:

because we precept and

Speaker:

guide pharmacists in like

Speaker:

four different pharmacy schools.

Speaker:

And so they come in

Speaker:

different years and we

Speaker:

teach them all about wellness.

Speaker:

And we start to teach them a little,

Speaker:

we start to unlearn some of

Speaker:

the things they've learned

Speaker:

just because they need to.

Speaker:

And that's the first thing I asked them.

Speaker:

I said,

Speaker:

why do you want to be a pharmacist?

Speaker:

And they always say,

Speaker:

because I want to help people.

Speaker:

And in today's modern world,

Speaker:

you touched on it,

Speaker:

but it's the big corporations, right?

Speaker:

They're buying all the medical practices.

Speaker:

They're buying all the pharmacies.

Speaker:

And it's getting...

Speaker:

like the big get on top of big.

Speaker:

So now owned by venture

Speaker:

capitalists was like a bigger pot, right?

Speaker:

So you're thinking like, oh,

Speaker:

it's just Walgreens and this big chain.

Speaker:

It's like, no,

Speaker:

VC wants to buy Walgreens so

Speaker:

they can control more of the process.

Speaker:

And-

Speaker:

Here we are at the end,

Speaker:

the other side of that, as, you know,

Speaker:

pharmacists and nurses and

Speaker:

doctors really trying to help people.

Speaker:

And we're stuck because the

Speaker:

machine is telling us to do this.

Speaker:

And so I love when you just

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kind of just said,

Speaker:

and I got to help somebody today.

Speaker:

And that's what fulfills me.

Speaker:

We talk a lot about

Speaker:

fulfillment as a health care provider.

Speaker:

practitioner you know in

Speaker:

health care and well care

Speaker:

like we do truly want to

Speaker:

help people and we're stuck

Speaker:

in the system sometimes and

Speaker:

you and I have made big

Speaker:

bold decisions to say no

Speaker:

more right that moral injury is

Speaker:

not bad.

Speaker:

I had a beautiful

Speaker:

conversation with a

Speaker:

physician who teaches how

Speaker:

physicians how to be whole

Speaker:

inside and still be in that practice.

Speaker:

Right?

Speaker:

So it's possible either way.

Speaker:

But I to resonate with that,

Speaker:

like that moral injury, because

Speaker:

At the end of the day,

Speaker:

I truly want to help people heal.

Speaker:

I don't want to manage their symptoms.

Speaker:

I want them to be in the driver's seat.

Speaker:

We can do that.

Speaker:

And then you have these

Speaker:

beautiful testimonials

Speaker:

through your conversations that say, wow,

Speaker:

you took the right amount

Speaker:

of time and you listened.

Speaker:

And now I feel heard.

Speaker:

And now that care has been shifted.

Speaker:

And then I feel that's how

Speaker:

people truly heal.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

Well, it's MyMDAdvocate.

Speaker:

Is that it?

Speaker:

Yeah, MyMDAdvocate.

Speaker:

MyMDAdvocate.com is the website.

Speaker:

In fact, I have two parts to the website.

Speaker:

One is the patient facing part,

Speaker:

which is the main website,

Speaker:

MyMDAdvocate.com.

Speaker:

And it kind of goes through everything.

Speaker:

And it's really for patients

Speaker:

in Washington state.

Speaker:

And then there's the physician side.

Speaker:

There's under the physician tab,

Speaker:

there's a whole host of other options.

Speaker:

And I can help any physician

Speaker:

in the country.

Speaker:

So it's not just Washington State.

Speaker:

And I'm particularly

Speaker:

interested in working with

Speaker:

colleagues who are

Speaker:

mid-career or maybe pre-retirement,

Speaker:

not ready to retire yet.

Speaker:

And they're just like, you know what?

Speaker:

I want to do something different,

Speaker:

but I'm not ready to quit.

Speaker:

So I don't know what what I

Speaker:

should do or tell me about

Speaker:

direct care or what about

Speaker:

telemedicine or maybe

Speaker:

partnering with some other person or,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

and it was I had a recent

Speaker:

consultation with a

Speaker:

physician in Indiana who was

Speaker:

quasi-retired,

Speaker:

but not quite ready to completely retire,

Speaker:

and working with a speech

Speaker:

pathologist who already had

Speaker:

a business that she had just started.

Speaker:

And so kind of, you know, teaming up.

Speaker:

And so it's just really nice

Speaker:

to lend my wisdom, so to speak,

Speaker:

to kind of help people

Speaker:

navigate that journey,

Speaker:

either just from the big

Speaker:

perspective or even drilling down to like,

Speaker:

oh, how does it work?

Speaker:

Like, do I need an attorney for this?

Speaker:

And what about that?

Speaker:

And what about my licensure?

Speaker:

And so it's the nuts and bolts part,

Speaker:

which is also fun for me to

Speaker:

help colleagues with.

Speaker:

And I'm seeing more of that, right?

Speaker:

More of this, like, not alternative,

Speaker:

but like...

Speaker:

We're moving in this, I feel,

Speaker:

golden age where AI is

Speaker:

going to help with certain

Speaker:

things and technologies and

Speaker:

frequencies and all these

Speaker:

things that are coming up

Speaker:

on the modern science thing.

Speaker:

But that connection, the human part, right,

Speaker:

the things that we're doing.

Speaker:

And I love that you're

Speaker:

advocating for this like new system where,

Speaker:

hey, I just don't feel I'm over here,

Speaker:

but I want to still help people.

Speaker:

And you can still bring them

Speaker:

through like it's mentoring,

Speaker:

guiding one on one, like get there faster,

Speaker:

get there cheaper,

Speaker:

get there with less energy

Speaker:

because I've done it and

Speaker:

I'm going to help you do it, too.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

And I love that because I'm

Speaker:

talking to more physicians,

Speaker:

more nurses in my field.

Speaker:

I do this with pharmacists.

Speaker:

It's like,

Speaker:

they don't want to just sling

Speaker:

pills and do any of that all anymore.

Speaker:

And they're not getting paid

Speaker:

and it's all frustrating for them.

Speaker:

And it's like, well, let's use this.

Speaker:

Let's figure out what you

Speaker:

can do to help others in

Speaker:

these other ways.

Speaker:

And so thank you for that.

Speaker:

Thank you for what you're

Speaker:

doing in that space.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

It's just it's it feels good

Speaker:

to be in this world right

Speaker:

now because we're doing these things,

Speaker:

you know.

Speaker:

Yeah.

Speaker:

And I would say that one

Speaker:

thing that I've done, too,

Speaker:

which was impossible in my

Speaker:

previous company,

Speaker:

even though I was a physician owner.

Speaker:

But, you know,

Speaker:

as I venture into my sixties here.

Speaker:

my golden handcuffs are gone.

Speaker:

My muzzle is gone.

Speaker:

I can speak my truth in ways

Speaker:

that so many of my

Speaker:

colleagues wish they could,

Speaker:

but they can't because they

Speaker:

don't want to get fired.

Speaker:

And they have, you know, you know,

Speaker:

basically do not compete

Speaker:

clauses and all these things.

Speaker:

They're just kind of garbage

Speaker:

up their contracts.

Speaker:

And so I now I can advocate

Speaker:

for my colleagues and my patients and

Speaker:

in ways I never thought imaginable.

Speaker:

An example, last year, I mean, I just,

Speaker:

who knew I had the guts to

Speaker:

be on the national stage a

Speaker:

couple of times.

Speaker:

So I was remotely involved with the ICCR,

Speaker:

the Interfaith Center for

Speaker:

Corporate Responsibility.

Speaker:

They had their New York City

Speaker:

conference and folks may

Speaker:

know Wendell Potter.

Speaker:

He's pretty famous.

Speaker:

I spoke alongside Wendell

Speaker:

and then he gave me advice later.

Speaker:

It was great.

Speaker:

And then Stat News,

Speaker:

a national organization,

Speaker:

had their Boston summit that

Speaker:

was late last year.

Speaker:

I was on stage there talking

Speaker:

about the big behemoth,

Speaker:

the United Healthcare,

Speaker:

and this is before the murder.

Speaker:

But my focus is always front and center,

Speaker:

patient safety,

Speaker:

and transparency.

Speaker:

And that, by the way,

Speaker:

is why I dislike that word provider,

Speaker:

because that word kind of

Speaker:

neutralizes everyone.

Speaker:

It's I find that word is

Speaker:

offensive to call a nurse, a provider,

Speaker:

to call a PA, a provider,

Speaker:

to call a chiropractor provider,

Speaker:

call an MD or DO provider,

Speaker:

because the patient hears

Speaker:

that word and they don't

Speaker:

know what this person is in

Speaker:

front of them.

Speaker:

And I think everyone needs

Speaker:

to use their title because

Speaker:

that gives a different flavor.

Speaker:

If you have someone sitting

Speaker:

down in the ER and they're

Speaker:

a social worker,

Speaker:

you want to know they're a social worker,

Speaker:

not a provider.

Speaker:

You know,

Speaker:

if someone's talking to you about

Speaker:

a surgery and they're an MD,

Speaker:

that's going to be a

Speaker:

different flavor than

Speaker:

someone who's a pharmacist.

Speaker:

And someone's talking about, I mean,

Speaker:

this is not pitting anyone against,

Speaker:

there's no room for ego here.

Speaker:

It's all about clarity and

Speaker:

transparency and honesty.

Speaker:

And boy, when you're sick, you know,

Speaker:

maybe you're near death.

Speaker:

It doesn't matter.

Speaker:

You just want to be saved.

Speaker:

Who cares what someone's called, but,

Speaker:

but in a non-emergent situation, I think,

Speaker:

Patients deserve to know

Speaker:

from whom they're getting care.

Speaker:

So that's where I come at from that term.

Speaker:

I just think it's not kind.

Speaker:

And in fact, it's misleading.

Speaker:

Yeah, well, it's ambiguous, right?

Speaker:

And that makes a lot of sense, right?

Speaker:

When you got to know your audience,

Speaker:

you want to know who you're talking to.

Speaker:

And it does put a flavor on it.

Speaker:

And even when you have

Speaker:

multiple credentials,

Speaker:

it's almost like when I'm

Speaker:

in the wellness field,

Speaker:

I'm not talking to them as a pharmacist.

Speaker:

I'm talking to them as a

Speaker:

functional medicine practitioner.

Speaker:

And I went through the same

Speaker:

training as nurses and

Speaker:

doctors and health care workers and,

Speaker:

you know, health coaches.

Speaker:

But and then I say I speak

Speaker:

from a lens of the

Speaker:

pharmacist because that's

Speaker:

where I came from.

Speaker:

And so this is what you're getting.

Speaker:

Right.

Speaker:

If I'm in energy medicine.

Speaker:

session.

Speaker:

I'm not going to speak to

Speaker:

them as a pharmacist.

Speaker:

I'm going to tell them I'm

Speaker:

certified in energy medicine.

Speaker:

If you're a Reiki master,

Speaker:

who cares if you're at RPX or not?

Speaker:

Because that's what they came for.

Speaker:

And so I also say, I just like,

Speaker:

I lighten things up because

Speaker:

I think in this day and age,

Speaker:

we're also really heavy.

Speaker:

And I was like, I speak science in woo.

Speaker:

Which way do you want to go today?

Speaker:

And this is going to sound laughable,

Speaker:

but I'd rather be called

Speaker:

human than provider because

Speaker:

we're all human.

Speaker:

Well, and that's a great point.

Speaker:

I'm glad you brought that up

Speaker:

because on the other side of the equation,

Speaker:

like,

Speaker:

we wanna be treated as humans,

Speaker:

whether you're the doctor or the patient,

Speaker:

we're all humans.

Speaker:

We're living this human

Speaker:

experience with these five

Speaker:

senses and the same kind of

Speaker:

consciousness.

Speaker:

And so I like just treating

Speaker:

people as people, right?

Speaker:

It's like, and when I have a conversation,

Speaker:

I just get on that level.

Speaker:

Like it's a level

Speaker:

conversation where we can

Speaker:

help each other.

Speaker:

And I've had conversations with,

Speaker:

with physicians and doctors

Speaker:

and everything is like,

Speaker:

and people learn from their peers too.

Speaker:

Like they learn from them

Speaker:

and this is why the group

Speaker:

settings are important, right?

Speaker:

And so we're moving in this

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direction where we can save

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our time by going into

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groups some of the time and

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to learn from the peers and

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the person that's delivering the message.

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So that's all beautiful and awesome.

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Before we wrap up,

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I want to get into the art

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piece a little bit, the art and science,

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because you walk daily,

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you love nature photos, you write,

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you speak, you guide others.

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How has creativity and the

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art part helped you heal or

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come alive with you and your patients?

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Oh, I could talk about that for hours,

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but let me just give you one or two.

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Yeah, give her some nuggets.

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This is so important, I think.

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Here's a story that will

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live with me for the rest of my life.

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So I mentioned before my

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late mother was an artist and I had,

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I think,

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twenty five of her paintings in

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my big office suite in my

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previous company.

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And several in each of my exam rooms.

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And I'll never forget this

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woman who traveled from Montana,

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which is two states over from Washington,

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traveled from Montana,

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annual exam with me.

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So she was put in the room

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by my medical assistant, you know,

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gowned and everything ready for me to go.

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And I walked in saying her name, hello.

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And I froze because she was

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standing in front of one of

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my mother's fairly abstract paintings.

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And she was like,

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almost like she was in a gallery,

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except she's wearing a robe.

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Like in an art gallery.

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She's looking at it very intently.

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And I almost felt like I was

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intruding on this incredible moment.

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Like I almost wanted to leave the room.

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And I think I maybe even

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started to back out.

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And she goes, oh, oh, sorry, sorry.

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And so she sat down and we went,

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we did her visit, et cetera.

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Well,

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a couple of weeks passed and she sent

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me a letter.

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Oh my God, I'm going to cry.

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She goes, Dr. B.,

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I just want to let you know

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what was happening when you

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walked in on me looking at your mother's

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And she said, when I saw this painting,

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I immediately was taken back to like,

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I'm just saying,

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to some place in the

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nineteen seventies on the

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Jersey Shore and the and

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the waves coming in and the

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birds flying by the shore.

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She said that painting took me there.

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And that was a beautiful

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moment in her life.

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Her daughter was young on the beach,

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et cetera.

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All these things that

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happened since then that

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weren't good in her life.

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And she goes,

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I just was transfixed by that.

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And she said it was so beautiful.

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It's like, oh, my God.

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So I I said, can I can I tell your story?

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And I've told her story many

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times without using your name.

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But that was just so amazing.

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So amazing to to kind of

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share that moment with her

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and and reach out through that painting.

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So that's just, you know,

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and then fast forward one

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of my other paintings.

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This is from the painting.

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one of my mother's is a big,

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huge work that was in my exam room.

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And it was from the nineteen

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eighties when she did life

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drawing from the from the nude figure.

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And this was back in the art

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gallery of Peterborough and Peterborough,

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Ontario, Canada,

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where I lived for quite a while.

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And it was an upstairs level, you know,

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closed off the general

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public and it was a heated

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room and they would have

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like a university student

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wanting to make more money, you know,

Speaker:

disrobe.

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So they would stand on a

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plinth or maybe sit in a chair or just

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pose nude and then six

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usually up to maybe ten or

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twelve artists with their

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easels and their contact

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crown and their chalk and

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whatever you know charcoal

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would do sketches and my

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mother would take one or

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two of these uh sketches

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and turn them into

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full-fledged works and and

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two of them ended up in my

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exam room so many times I'd

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have people say like

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Wow, that's really amazing.

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And we then talk about art

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for a few minutes and maybe

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they would talk about their

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experience of maybe they

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went to the Louvre or something.

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But, you know,

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it was just that magical moment.

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And I have much of my own

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art to talk about.

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But those are those stories

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that I just cherish.

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And I think that, again,

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you're you're connecting

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with someone in a way that

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is so important and so beautiful.

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It's just part of me.

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I love that.

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And you you get that.

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to not only share something

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that's important to you but

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that connection like just

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going back to like someone

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that can just because they

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happen to go to your office

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with that particular

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painting in there and they

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go back to that peak

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emotional experience that

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brought them this joy and

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happiness you bring joy and happiness and

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I say this all the time when

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I'm teaching wellness to

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the pharmacists that I

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teach is like those are the

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intangibles that you bring

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to the table that actually

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can trans fix them into the

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healing journey like it's

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not the diagnosis or the

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supplement or the the

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protocol sometimes it's

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literally that and that or the time spent

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Right, or the time spent, right?

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We made a great point, like,

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forty minutes or five.

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Five can be all that it takes,

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and that's where I think we're moving.

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Like,

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that's where I think we can do what

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we need to do in the time

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that we need to do it.

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We could go on probably, yes,

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for another two hours,

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but our time and space is limited today.

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But what...

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I always love the one thing, right?

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What's the one thing or the

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message you want most

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physicians and patients to

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take from your journey and

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our conversation today?

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It's going to be insanely simple.

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It's listen.

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Have some empty space.

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Maybe when there's no conversation,

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no talking.

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be present with someone.

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And that goes for patients too,

Speaker:

because doctors are doctors

Speaker:

are human beings,

Speaker:

and they're not perfect.

Speaker:

And try, emphasis on try,

Speaker:

try to not let the system problems,

Speaker:

you know,

Speaker:

poison and pollute this

Speaker:

beautiful relationship,

Speaker:

because it's hard not to sometimes.

Speaker:

So I think just listening, being present,

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and in whatever way that

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that entails for each individual.

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love that it's uh the word

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patience is kind of like

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not patience people but

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patience right this is why

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I don't like the word

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patient because it's

Speaker:

misleading too right am I

Speaker:

talking patience more

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patience but that's the

Speaker:

word that keeps coming up

Speaker:

for me so I love that the

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space in between the notes

Speaker:

is the music right um so

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where can people follow you

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link you like we got I know

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we have the menopausemenu.com the my

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MD advocate.com.

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So those are your.coms.

Speaker:

Those are your living rooms.

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Is there any,

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are you on any of the other channels?

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What can people find you get

Speaker:

more information or is that it?

Speaker:

Is that good?

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Yeah.

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So menopause.com subscribe

Speaker:

because I would love to share my,

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my wisdom with people.

Speaker:

I'm also on LinkedIn and I have,

Speaker:

that's kind of where I do

Speaker:

most of my social media stuff.

Speaker:

I do have a Facebook page.

Speaker:

presence.

Speaker:

I have a Facebook menopause menu page.

Speaker:

I also have a private group

Speaker:

called mosaic wisdom for women.

Speaker:

So there's lots of different

Speaker:

ways to kind of connect

Speaker:

with me on the YouTube channel.

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Oh my gosh.

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But, um,

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I would say menopause many.com is

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the really, uh, free information,

Speaker:

public facing way to interact.

Speaker:

And then my MD advocate.com, um,

Speaker:

where you can find my email,

Speaker:

which is Susan at my MD advocate.com.

Speaker:

And I just love when people reach out.

Speaker:

Love that.

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Beautiful.

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Um,

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Dr. B, Susan, this has been amazing.

Speaker:

Thank you so much for your wisdom,

Speaker:

but also just like who you

Speaker:

are and why and what you're doing.

Speaker:

It just resonates right off

Speaker:

the screen because you can

Speaker:

tell you're passionate about this.

Speaker:

You're smiling the whole way through.

Speaker:

And that to me, to me, that's energy,

Speaker:

right?

Speaker:

And energy is where things are moving.

Speaker:

So I love this.

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This was a beautiful conversation.

Speaker:

So just thank you.

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Thank you so much.

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Thank you.

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It was my pleasure.

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All right, that's a wrap, everyone.

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Hope you enjoyed this episode.

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I think there's a ton of

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value in here for lots of

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different things.

Speaker:

Until next time, stay well.

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About the Podcast

Beyond the Pills
Where Timeless Wisdom Meets Modern Science For True Healing
In a world saturated with quick fixes and symptom-chasing, Beyond the Pills dares to ask: What if true healing starts from within?

Hosted by Josh Rimany, a conventionally trained pharmacist turned visionary in functional medicine, this podcast invites you on a journey to redefine what health really means. With over 220K global downloads, Beyond the Pills is a trusted source for those ready to move past the traditional model of medicine and step into a deeper, more empowered relationship with their mind, body, and spirit.

Each episode is a conversation that goes deeper than prescriptions—exploring the root causes of dis-ease, the power of lifestyle medicine, and the tools you need to take your health into your own hands.

Whether you're a health professional, conscious consumer, or simply someone who feels there must be more than medications, this podcast is your roadmap to vibrant, sustainable wellness.

🎙 What You’ll Hear Inside:

‣ In-depth interviews with leading experts in integrative health, biohacking, functional medicine, plant medicine, neuroscience, and more.
‣ Real-world strategies to support mental clarity, gut health, hormonal balance, immunity, and energy.
‣ Tools and tech for optimizing your health—from wearable devices to ancient healing practices.
‣ Spiritual and energetic insights to reconnect you with your body’s innate wisdom.
‣ Stories of transformation from patients and practitioners who have gone beyond the pill bottle and found lasting wellness.

Why Beyond the Pills?

Because health is not just the absence of disease—it’s a state of vitality, alignment, and intention.

Josh Rimany combines the best of both worlds: the credibility of clinical science with the soul of holistic healing. With decades of experience in pharmacy and a passion for root-cause medicine, Josh guides listeners toward a lifestyle that’s proactive, personalized, and purpose-driven.

Beyond the Pills is where ancient wisdom meets cutting-edge science, offering practical steps that anyone can take—regardless of where they are on their health journey.

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Listeners from around the world are tuning in to reclaim their health—naturally. With a U.S.-based audience made up of wellness seekers, professionals, and entrepreneurs, this show is creating a ripple effect in the health and wellness space.
New episodes drop regularly on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, and everywhere you listen.

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